Posted on Dec 10, 2015
SGT Training Room Nco
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Posted in these groups: Height and weight logo Height and WeightBilde AR 600-9
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Responses: 75
SFC Stephen King
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Great question SGT (Join to see) I have waited for 23 years for the Army to update and or change the standard. That being said yes, the standard needs to be addressed and updated to a more effective practice in measuring body fat also the different types of body types needs to be incorporated into the standard.
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SSG Lyle O'Rorke
SSG Lyle O'Rorke
>1 y
Honestly the I understand the need to be fit and professional, with that being said I was always a firm believer that if a service member can pass their APFT and does not look like shit in their uniform then there is no need for weight of body fat to be considered. I mean look at the last time we truly won in combat, sorry to say, was in WWII what were their weight standards then?
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SSG William White
SSG William White
>1 y
I Agree and I say this all of my Weight problems today are a result of the Armies overly restrictive weight policies. I remember a Female who Maxed the APFT test Every time but yet she was Kicked out of the army for being overweight yet she outperformed a lot of the men coud do 2 x the max required Pushups 2x the max in Situps her 2 mile runs were around 14 - 12 min runs yet she was kicked out do to the standards.
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SGM Transportation Sgm
SGM (Join to see)
>1 y
SSG William White - I am calling bulls**t on that!
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SGM Transportation Sgm
SGM (Join to see)
>1 y
I have been taped for ten years now. I love it! At 76", 247 pounds and 8% body fat, being taped is my only opportunity to stick it to the man. However, I do sympathize with my fellow Solders who are physically fit, but shaped like a barrel chested dwarf. Those Soldiers fail the tape based on a genetically determined body type that is completely irrelevant to physical fitness
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SGT Training Room Nco
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I ask this question because I am a black female who ALWAYS has to get taped. I am 70" tall and I weigh in (it fluctuates) anywhere from 179-184. I've never had an issue with being taped until you run across those who don't tape correctly. Therefore putting Soldiers at 1-2% over, but yet scoring 270+ on PT test. No matter how hard I train my genetics will NOT CHANGE.
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PO1 Cryptologic Technician (Technical)
PO1 (Join to see)
>1 y
I understand. I've been taped all times except for once when I was below weight. I've always had an issue with my weight and even if I were to work out everyday for 2+ hours, I can still slim down but the weight will fluctuate. There are some genetics in me that maybe bigger than others but I don't think that it should reflect on how well I can perform at PT test. I've always been in good standing, almost excellent but different branches do different things and their PT tests are always different. I think that it should be looked at but needs to have consideration for others that are different sizes (bigger bust, hips, chest, waist, etc.)
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CPT Assistant Operations Officer (S3)
CPT (Join to see)
>1 y
I agree with you. I just took an APFT and passed it with no issue. I failed tape. Due to that I had to do a crash diet and had two weeks to make tape. I dropped 12 pounds in about two weeks. It sucked but I don't think I am much more fit. I am just leaner but I hate it that I have to cut so much right before and have to worry about it.
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SSG Cnd Analyst
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
Genetics have tripped up a lot of people. Even those who are just naturally muscular and have a large frame, the tape cannot account for that. There are definitely those who get away with some stuff too because they have a huge neck but, by and large the Tape test weeds out a lot of good soldiers who would otherwise be a good soldier.
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SSG Bob Teachout
SSG Bob Teachout
4 y
CPT (Join to see) - and loosing that much weight in a short time
may not be good from a medical point of view.
IMHO - HW standards are too strict
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SSG Warren Swan
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This needs to be seriously looked at, but right now it won't no matter how much we bitch, whine, or moan. There is a strong desire to get troops out. By hook or crook it's going to be done. This is another tool that will be used in some commanders box to weed out those who aren't "bad" troops, but aren't as "good" as others. How many times have you seen TOG Soldiers and hear "they are models of professionalism and how we should look"? Not to take away from ANY of them, but with some of them getting there fresh out of BCT, are they really? I use them as my example being I used to be judged against them when I had to stuff my tail in Dress Blues on a regular basis at Myer. We preach "total Soldier" and the H/W and APFT come in to trip some very, VERY good Soldiers up. I've had to assist in chaptering out a NCO who was SH*T hot in her MOS, awesome in regards to teaching her job to new troops who weren't even in the Army, but due to APFT/H/W she was seen as a sh*tbag, and even though 1SG hated to do it (He was HELLBENT on saving this NCO), he had to get her counseling done and the recommendation to the commander to chapter her out on weight control. She was sent packing. Is this what we've come down to? A good leader, great NCO, and could TEACH? I know many "stellar" NCO's who couldn't teach themselves how to rip up an already torn paper bag. But they're studs, never have to be taped, and know how to play the game with those above them. I foresee soon that the Army is going to realize that they cut too far too soon. You're going to see massive changes to get back a lot of the talent that it sent packing to include debt forgiveness, bonuses, and stop losses. At that point, MAYBE the Army will take a longer look until it feels the service is too "fat" again. I remember the talk about changing the APFT to make it more inline with what troops are doing in battle.....how'd that work out? Been at war for 14 years and still do the same three event APFT, even though it's been shown it has no relevance to what the force actually does. If anyone on RP has ran two miles in 12 minutes, done 80 push ups, and did 90 sit ups in two minutes in full battle rattle, while conducting your PCC's and PCI's, please let me know. I know dragging a Soldier, carrying a Soldier, road marching over ROUGH terrain with body armor and ruck, working your neck to death looking everywhere and nowhere at the same time, all play into the APFT we need to focus on for the battles coming up. The one upside to the three event test is there's no money and very little time involved to conduct it. Do the six event test on a company, and get ready to be there all day long. S3 can schedule in advance for the next six years for the six event test, and something will go wrong they cannot control. I hope the Army and the sister services get past the "looks" part of being a troop, and realize there is more to this, and actually practice the Total Soldier Concept.
I think after reading this, I'm dead wrong. If the Army really listened to those at the ground levels, we would still be wearing BDU's or a very close variant of it with green jungle boots (tan isn't bad), and they would've realized what the rest of the Army already knew; we had the best uniform ever at the time, there was no need to change it, but we did to a uniform that works great on a couch or in the sky, but not in terrain where you're "grey" and the surrounding ground is tan or green.
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SSG Warren Swan
SSG Warren Swan
>1 y
1SG Jon Weiss - 1SG if you can see it, I know other SNCO's see it too. Why isn't this brought up to the SMA? I know he has a thing for PT and he's right. But when you focus on just that one aspect of Soldiering, you forget or overlook the other parts of it. Not saying there shouldn't be standards to enforce, but I think more leeway should be given to the Commander and the 1SG as to what happens to the Soldier. I read some articles where CSM's complained about the amount of time it takes to process a Soldier out, but do they see the amount of time it takes to bring a new Soldier to where he/she is just as good or better than the person who they just sent packing who was good at their job? That's taking into account the new Soldier can even do the job. But I'm not privy to what SNCO's talk about in regards to force structure and shaping the force of the future, and there could be more to it that I don't see at my level, along with the fact I'm retired now.
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SSG Bob Teachout
SSG Bob Teachout
4 y
What I think is interesting - is that during Nam - the Army did not care how much you weighed. When Nam was over the regs were then enforced. A lot of good 10 - 15 year NCOs were given walking papers. Also, I was talking to someone who deployed to Grenada. He said there was no checking their before they got on the plane - and that there were a few guys who were being chaptered out of the Army -within a week. well, they took a trip back to CIF to be re-issued TA-50 and they got a free trip to the South.
Well, IMHO - if they good enough to be sent to combat - then the chapter should be filed-13.
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