Posted on Jun 8, 2016
SPC Training Nco
14.9K
29
28
5
5
0
Avatar feed
Responses: 14
Votes
  • Newest
  • Oldest
  • Votes
SPC Jillian O'Malley
6
6
0
Yes, it should. I would still be in today if it wasn't for the strict standards of weight. I was able to ETS honorably, but had a bar to reenlistment because I couldn't pass tape. I scored a 300 on PT tests 4 times in my 5 years in, and even my first PT test ever in basic I scored a 250. I trained hard for those 300s, but I couldn't control my given genetics. The tape test is severely flawed, on one of the several times I failed a tape test, I paid to have a dunk tank test done, the results? I was well within Army standard for bodyfat percentage but the dunk tank test is unauthorized even though its dramatically more accurate than the tape test.

Sorry for the slight rant, I have always been a bit bitter about this because I wanted to be a lifer
(6)
Comment
(0)
SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
9 y
What is your recomendation that meets all the needs of the program?
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Unscheduled Services Team Leader
6
6
0
Absolutely. There are soldiers who appear fit, and can't run, can't perform sit ups, or push ups, but they can do just enough to pass. Where as myself, I can run 13s, max push ups, max sit ups, but in order to not be taped I can only be 185lbs. I weigh 215. So when that test comes up I have to go through extreme measures to pass but I don't look fat. I don't jiggle I just have a slim neck.

That being said, if SSG fatass really is fat, he is good because he has a thick neck. It's fat. It's a fat neck. But it's ok because the algorithm says he's good to go
(6)
Comment
(0)
SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
9 y
What is your recomendation that meets all the needs of the program?
(0)
Reply
(0)
SPC Unscheduled Services Team Leader
SPC (Join to see)
9 y
SGM Erik Marquez - that, as is the AR600-9 is a loaded topic.

I do agree that there needs to be some sort of distinction, if not the soldiers will just get fat and won't look militaristic. There was a study done in Hawaii that used water displacement to contradict the tape test, and the tape test was wrong every time. I don't know what the answer is, but the tape test is not it. It's an inaccurate, outdated method of determining body composition
(0)
Reply
(0)
SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
9 y
SPC (Join to see) - Its not that I dont agree with you, it is that I was taught, And then taught my SM, my sons, never complain if you're not willing to suggest a solution.
As you pointed out there needs to be a standard and a method to test against the standard.
There are many more accurate tests than the tape test, thus far there is not a more accurate test, that is deployable to an entire military service world wide to the company level. Hence the retention not of the best system money can buy, but one that can be bought, trained, implemented on a service wide basis.
(3)
Reply
(0)
SGM Steve Wettstein
SGM Steve Wettstein
9 y
SGM Erik Marquez - "There are many more accurate tests than the tape test, thus far there is not a more accurate test, that is deployable to an entire military service world wide to the company level.". Nailed it.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SGM Erik Marquez
5
5
0
Edited 9 y ago
Lots of "Yes it should change" opinions, not a single basic suggestion, , never mind indepth recommendation of how it could be changed that would be realistically useable in the mission role of the US military, implemented down to the company level worldwide, in a scalable program fitting all Army units. Standards equitable to all servicemembers, testable with consistency, a system and tools available to all units down to the company level in all assigned geographic areas..
(5)
Comment
(0)
MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
9 y
My first thought was that performance in the field should take precedence over physical appearance. If you look good and can't do the job as required, what have you gained. That is from a person that never weighed over 165 during his career.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
9 y
MCPO Roger Collins - Ok Master Chief, I dont disagree.
So what is your suggestion and recommendation in how to quantifiably measure consistently, evenly across all commands the subjective nature of " performance in the field "
(0)
Reply
(0)
MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
9 y
SGM Erik Marquez - JMHO, but this should be taken care of during recruiting, then if someone gains weight in excess and can not perform the fitness tests, take action to restore their abilities. As to those that have been in the military for a full career, their evaluations should reflect their abilities to do the job and recommended actions. That would limit promotions and the up or out would resolve the issue. Sheer obesity isn't on the table here, that is another story. When you have extremely fit NFL players from 250-300 lbs, weight should not be sole criteria for keeping on in the military. JMHO, some may differ.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SPC Infantryman
SPC (Join to see)
3 y
So here's a solution I can present that the military should do you have good soldiers who pass APF t's ACF t's with high scores and then when it comes to the heighten and weight they have to be scaled scaled and if they are overweight by their standard they have to be have to be taped which If they fail it automatically fails there APFT even though they passed so the military needs to needs to change that to where if soldiers who passed the APFT or the ACF T do not need to be wieghed and check They're body fat percentage which means now we have more soldiers that are healthier even though they passed but we also need to remove that 60% mark because the 60% is no longer an average point it is an average point for the normal human being to not succeed succeed if we change the percentage to passing at 70% it makes soldiers work harder to reach that goal
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Avatar feed
Should the Army's height/weight program be changed?
SFC Retention and Transition NCO (USAR)
1
1
0
I do not like the tape test to start with. What I really don't like is you can have 8 different people in 8 different rooms in a 8 minute time frame and get 8 different measurement, this is 8UP. The people taping are NOT properly trained on what they are doing, I personally have never been given a class, never was taught it in PLDC, BNCOC, ANCOC (yes i'm old) it was always 600-9 explains it. When we are talking something that effects Soldiers careers like this it needs to be done by trained persons, Master Fitness Trainers, Dietitians, or medics.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Sheila Lewis
0
0
0
No, the American society should change.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CW5 Regimental Chief Warrant Officer
0
0
0
Since there are thoughts of letting the standards stretch for Cyber perhaps we need to look at changing the standards overall.
There's overweight and then there's just plain fat. Sometimes what is considered overweight is still a Soldier who appears fit and Soldierly and can pass all other physical and proficiency tests required to remain in the military. Unfortunately, the 'appears fit and Soldierly' is not quantifiable in nature so we use this silly tape test.
So maybe it needs to come down to a fitness board for those who do not meet the tape test by a certain margin. It would require a majority of 10 SNCOs to approve that the Soldier is fit and Soldierly. Each weigh-in would require that the next board would have no more than 50% of SNCOs that have previously evaluated the SM in the past year.
Amount of effort required at BN level: minimal. Soldier can be evaluated immediately after the weigh-in/tape.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CPT Robert Boshears
0
0
0
I had a platoon leader who was at least 6ft 5 and weighed about 240+, about 1% body fat (he was a triathlete) I had to write a letter every physical and send him in to be taped. If you fail, and know you are overweight, you already know the problem.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SCPO Investigator
0
0
0
It should be based upon other, more critical factors, like BMI. Why should a 4'11", 100# female get inducted over a male with matching height and weight who has a BMI of 1%??? It's patently unfair. In the overall general population, he would typically ace her in most, if not all, physical agility tests.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGM Erik Marquez
0
0
0
Sure. you bet.. What is your recomendation that meets all the needs of the program?
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CSM Geologist
0
0
0
Yes. It needs to be changed to prevent false DA Forms 5500 and 5501.
(0)
Comment
(0)
SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
9 y
What is your recomendation that meets all the needs of the program?
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Darren Koele
0
0
0
Edited 9 y ago
2b404462
Absolutely. Height/weight tell very little of an individual's story. This is normally where I tell a story involving anecdotal evidence. Instead of doing that this time, let me show you a picture:
JJ Watt - Height: 6'5", Weight 289lbs. Using the height/weight calculation, this equlsl a BMI of 34.1.
JJ Watt is morbidly obese.

Think about it. Under military regulations, he would be forced out the service.
(0)
Comment
(0)
SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
9 y
You do not there is no "height/weight calculation" that sets the standard to chapter under AR 600-9 yes?
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Assistant Team Leader
0
0
0
Under the current system the Army may as well just order a large quantity of Abercrombie and Fitch posters with the caption of "All soldiers are directed to look like this as- except for the haircuts. And being all white. Non-white soldiers may retain their issued skin tone"
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Bde Mobility Nco
0
0
0
Yes. Will they do it? That is the question.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Pete Fleming
0
0
0
Edited 9 y ago
This is a thorn and both current and former members should reply. I think it should reflect the actual endurance and physical needs of the job (the whole military). There needs to be a standard, and a way to measure it. But it is not fair... An over weigh person with a big neck could pass tape with a body builder with a small neck would fail... I am not sure if it is still that dumb but...
(0)
Comment
(0)
SPC Training Nco
SPC (Join to see)
9 y
That's essentially what Im getting at. a 300+ lb soldier with a 18+ inch neck will pass depending on age/what their body fat allotment is. Still doesn't mean they can run/push/do their job anymore. They'll be pushed into the S shops as a desk worker.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSG Pete Fleming
SSG Pete Fleming
9 y
SPC (Join to see) - Funny 14 years later and this is still an issue... The military tries to be social experiment in all the wrong areas. Adjust the standard to fit the need. But at the same time... get rid of the outdated means to measure body mass.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CW5 Jack Gaudet
CW5 Jack Gaudet
9 y
I worked with a body builder which had a very low body fat percentage but was processed for discharge because he could not make the tape. Had another SM which worked for me and while getting ready for BNCOC he lost a lot of weight and failed tape because he had lost a lot from the neck and was discharged. He was one of the best HAWK crewman that I knew, was not fat but was just a big guy.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

How are you connected to the military?
  • Active Duty
  • Active Reserve / National Guard
  • Pre-Commission
  • Veteran / Retired
  • Civilian Supporter