Posted on Apr 26, 2016
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https://warisboring.com/it-s-hard-to-tell-war-heroes-from-paper-pushers-when-everybody-gets-so-many-dumb-ribbons-9880c02e718c#.pm9dk9ofb
This article makes a compelling case for redesign of the DoD medal and ribbon policies. The solution offered, wearing valor awards on the right side of uniform, may not please many service members, but it's one idea. Please read the article and take the survey.
This article makes a compelling case for redesign of the DoD medal and ribbon policies. The solution offered, wearing valor awards on the right side of uniform, may not please many service members, but it's one idea. Please read the article and take the survey.
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 85
Yes, Yes, yes. It really upsets me the amount of traffic on this site about this medal or that badge. How about 2 or three rows of ribbons starting at you highest and only two badges. I remember people retiring with a National Defense and a Good Conduct.
That was how Patreus injured his back. Trying to stand up
That was how Patreus injured his back. Trying to stand up
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Not everything needs a ribbon anymore - volunteering, overseas, schools, GCM, reserve time, arctic, some are duplicative... Do you really need a GCM or Schools ribbon? You're still in and have rank - toss those two. Put the volunteer on OER/NCOER and call it good. Some jobs don't necessarily mean any less when in a supportive manner so do you now say Valor is superior to support being CONUS more often simply due to a job, e.g., UAV pilot sitting at Huachuca vice OCONUS or Admin preparing your deployment. Some are just going to get more due to their jobs and the opportunities either through volunteering or being volunteered. Been out for almost 20 now so a lot has changed, but I took every single troops mission as being just as important as the other's. Pushing paper or being on the line, each had a mission and performed as expected or beyond in their capacity! Does it need work or change, one could say no because of the decades long service time, but another thing if I recall, Just because you have them, you DO NOT have to wear them, though highly recommended... Again, policy changes and might be dictated.
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We need to turn the clock back about 60 years. You should not get an AAM for doing your job. You should not get a MSM for doing your job. Ribbons and medals should be limited to campaigns and acts of valor and heroism. AND, get rid of all the extra badges, army uniforms look like over decorated Christmas trees (and I'm retired army).
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Not long after 911 occurred Kala I was recalled to full active duty in the US navy. I was being mobilize in Pensacola naval air station. We checked in and they gave us our quarters to stay here and after that we were dismissed for the rest of the day. I went down to the navy exchange to get some military clothing. This store also sold civilian clothing. I noticed an elderly couple, in their eighties. The husband had on a ball cap and a light blue windbreaker jacket. He was looking at some shirts and his wife of possibly 5060 years was critiquing him on his choice of shirts. They were doing the typical old couple thing at the time period the wife harping on what the husband was doing and the husband ignoring the wife.. I sorta chuckled at the scene as I was witnessing this period that was when the guy turned his back to me and I saw what unit he was with.
He was with the 82nd Airborne through all up its campaigns in World War II. All of them!
At that point in my life, I had 4 rows of ribbons and was working on a 5th row. Upon seeing the back of that Veterans jacket, I realized that all the wars I had received in the navy didn't mean Jack ship. I was staring at a true veteran and a true hero! Back when the military actually gave out awards for meaningful things!
Today, our military hands out feel good awards to individuals for basically just doing their job.
He was with the 82nd Airborne through all up its campaigns in World War II. All of them!
At that point in my life, I had 4 rows of ribbons and was working on a 5th row. Upon seeing the back of that Veterans jacket, I realized that all the wars I had received in the navy didn't mean Jack ship. I was staring at a true veteran and a true hero! Back when the military actually gave out awards for meaningful things!
Today, our military hands out feel good awards to individuals for basically just doing their job.
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Recognition is an important tool, but I fear we have been terribly uncreative in how we employ it (especially in the Air Force). Assuming that everything that is being recognized should be, we should probably consider options other than ribbons for some things. I won't lie, I'm a little jealous of service hashes our sister services use. It's an efficient, effective, non-ribbon form of recognition. And maybe a good concept to model.
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CMSgt (Join to see)
MSgt (Join to see) I unfortunately have to agree with you about the old blue suit - it lacks in many ways and is long over-due for "correction." I say correction because the current configuration was the folly of General Merrill McPeak, who wanted the USAF to look more business professional and less military when in uniform. This was before my TIS started, but there is plenty to be read about his absurd attempts to be the Air Force's Chief of Fashion in the early 1990's.
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The comparison picture is somewhat misleading. You're allowed to wear only the top three, like Eike is doing there.
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For some reason having to do with multiple redirections within a site I've not been able to take a look at the quoted article but looking at the comments on this topic I think I get the gist. Why do those who display bravery in combat deserve less prestigious awards than those who perform their duties without bullets and other unfriendly things whizzing about at the time? And all of the variants of that question. And why does everybody look like an Admiral in the Swiss Navy?
So Here's an idea. Pare down the awards given for things like serving overseas unless it's deemed an unpleasant place to be for an extended period of time(think the DMZ in Korea, Antarctica or places the internet is not available), completing schools that do not add an identifier your MOS, volunteering to help in your community or doing things you are supposed to do like riding around on boats or airplanes. Change the order of precedence for decorations to recognize valor, service and achievement, and longevity in that order. Do away with the multi purpose awards. The combat valor awards would be the MOH, Service Crosses, Silver Star, DFC, Bronze Star, Combat Air Medal and the Commendation Medal for Valor in that order. Then the Purple Heart followed by the Soldier, Navy and Marine Corps, Airman's and Coast Guard Medals for non combat valor. The decorations for service would be ordered as follows: the various Distinguished Service Medals, LOM, MSM, the service Commendation Medals for Service then the various Achievement Medals with those awarded for service in combat zones designated with a "C." Then the service awards such as the POW Medal and the various GCM's. Award campaign medals for service in combat zoness, humanitarian missions or just plain nasty places(AFEM). The precedent for a medal for staying home was set during WWII so the NDSM stays but it comes after all the medals for going someplace.. The number of foreign awards worn would be one per nation or organization and may not exceed the number of US awards and would be worn in order of award.
So under this scheme GEN Petraeous' top award would be the Bronze Star followed by the Imageneral service awards and the Notageneral service awards. His Armed Forces Service Medal and Overseas Service Ribbons would go away as would one French medal and one NATO medal.
So Here's an idea. Pare down the awards given for things like serving overseas unless it's deemed an unpleasant place to be for an extended period of time(think the DMZ in Korea, Antarctica or places the internet is not available), completing schools that do not add an identifier your MOS, volunteering to help in your community or doing things you are supposed to do like riding around on boats or airplanes. Change the order of precedence for decorations to recognize valor, service and achievement, and longevity in that order. Do away with the multi purpose awards. The combat valor awards would be the MOH, Service Crosses, Silver Star, DFC, Bronze Star, Combat Air Medal and the Commendation Medal for Valor in that order. Then the Purple Heart followed by the Soldier, Navy and Marine Corps, Airman's and Coast Guard Medals for non combat valor. The decorations for service would be ordered as follows: the various Distinguished Service Medals, LOM, MSM, the service Commendation Medals for Service then the various Achievement Medals with those awarded for service in combat zones designated with a "C." Then the service awards such as the POW Medal and the various GCM's. Award campaign medals for service in combat zoness, humanitarian missions or just plain nasty places(AFEM). The precedent for a medal for staying home was set during WWII so the NDSM stays but it comes after all the medals for going someplace.. The number of foreign awards worn would be one per nation or organization and may not exceed the number of US awards and would be worn in order of award.
So under this scheme GEN Petraeous' top award would be the Bronze Star followed by the Imageneral service awards and the Notageneral service awards. His Armed Forces Service Medal and Overseas Service Ribbons would go away as would one French medal and one NATO medal.
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Lt Col Walter Green
With respect Captain, my personally most valued award for a career of 24 years was my Air Force Combat Readiness Medal, awarded for sustained combat ready performance. Doesn't sound particularly impressive, in fact you might laugh at it because I was just doing my job, actually sitting in a chair, no bullets flying around. But among the 7 awards was the night when my crew knew that we were going to die in a nuclear attack - the appropriate defcon, warning red, air defense emergency. Knowing that you have 10-15 minutes before civilization ends and working your ass off to get as many airplanes airborne as possible, orbit points manned, etc., was just doing my job as an air battle manager. Nobody flinched, nobody slunk off to warn their wife, everyone did their job, a job we had practiced for for hundreds of times. We did not die that night, but we had nuclear armed aircraft sitting at battle stations on the runway for 3 days, crews in the cockpit, engines running. Just service, staying at home in the US, sitting in a chair in an air conditioned building, not worth much, but if we had not been there and done that to demonstrate deterrence, you would never have been born. It is easy to rate medals based on what a manual says ... but in the end it is the context that counts. If I could I would have worn that ribbon ahead of every other award I received in my career. And by the way, the Swiss don't have a Navy, but they have a competent little Army, and a full career's worth of service there might well get you two rows of ribbons if you were lucky.
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CPT Jim Schwebach
I too have unit awards that I'm very proud of but their precedence reflects the valor first philosophy (PUC, VUC, MUC, NUC, KPUC, VNGC, VNCA). Luckily I'm an Army vet so these awards stand alone and are not buried in my individual awards. I served a tour on the DMZ in Korea where we were shot at by people we didn't even know. I served multiple tours with units designated as QRF (SF and ABN) and deployed once or twice. Those units were combat ready and demonstrated that capability in harm's way. We too were just doing our jobs but received no awards for doing them(twenty years or so later some of us did get a service medal and a foreign unit award). As to my reference to the Swiss Navy admirals- during the Sixties and early Seventies that reference was user to describe SM's whose racks appeared to overstate their accomplishments(the current term is, I believe, third world dictator). Assumptions are sometimes a slippery slope. I appreciate what it was to live under the nuclear threat and the protective umbrella SAC provided for us but I was born a decade before either became viable.
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Why not mandate a "total number", 12-15, of service and campaign ribbons to be worn.
Qualification badges S/b restricted to courses of? 3 weeks, (5 jump chump), or longer?
All would have to be instantly identifiable by the wearer!
I ain't got no DOG in this discussion, just consternation with the number of ribbons, medals, qualification badges, unit awards, foreign decorations etc. So I missed a few, I can't imagine why!
Qualification badges S/b restricted to courses of? 3 weeks, (5 jump chump), or longer?
All would have to be instantly identifiable by the wearer!
I ain't got no DOG in this discussion, just consternation with the number of ribbons, medals, qualification badges, unit awards, foreign decorations etc. So I missed a few, I can't imagine why!
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There was a time, not to many years ago, when I could just about predict a serviceman's record by looking at his or her rack when they were checking into my unit. Valor and excellence were reflected above the National Defence Service ribbon and where they had been was evidenced below. Doing a "good" job rated nothing since that was expected. Those wearing a medal for administrative achievement had done something above a good job.
End of tour awards and meritorious awards for a good job cheapens the significance of those awards for those who distinguished themselves by doing something above expectations. The theater and campaign awards show you survived a tour.
End of tour awards and meritorious awards for a good job cheapens the significance of those awards for those who distinguished themselves by doing something above expectations. The theater and campaign awards show you survived a tour.
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I really don't want to see a major shape up to the award precedence but do think many of the ribbons could be eliminated such as the Army Service Ribbon (ASR) and the NCO Professional Development Ribbon (NCOPD) just as those in other services for completing a specific school (AIT). The military is an meritocracy and most awards are issued based on "what you do", not "who you are". I will not attempt to disrespect anyone's intelligence by suggesting rank or position doesn't enter into many levels of awards but in my experience it has been merit that drives awards. My last thought on this.... I do not think an ARCOM w/V should be placed above a Bronze Star.
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Medals
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