Posted on Mar 5, 2014
Should the military grant a 4 year "General Studies" degree to soldiers whom have served in the Armed Forces?
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I am currently working with a LTC who is pursuing his PhD and at current, is posing a question for a research paper about the military partnering with higher education institutions with the question above.
In an economy with a financial crisis, and knowing that a four-year degree is starting to become the “standard” certification for employment beyond the military, should the military actively push this initiative?
I know from my experiences, working on the civilian government side, that it is virtually impossible to switch to a GS grade job without a degree. With all of the training and education that the Armed Forces provide for its SMs should that equate to an earned degree after service? If so, why? And how long should
the soldier serve before earning a “general studies” degree?
In an economy with a financial crisis, and knowing that a four-year degree is starting to become the “standard” certification for employment beyond the military, should the military actively push this initiative?
I know from my experiences, working on the civilian government side, that it is virtually impossible to switch to a GS grade job without a degree. With all of the training and education that the Armed Forces provide for its SMs should that equate to an earned degree after service? If so, why? And how long should
the soldier serve before earning a “general studies” degree?
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Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 119
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No. Unless the service member actually attends college courses. A degree for doing your job equates to a diploma mill that sells diplomas for life skills.
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I have started to teach some college on a part time level. The part that I see as a problem with granting a general studies degree of any level is that most freshman/sophmore/associate degree programs have a large number of developmental classes.... some of them include English 101, Speech 101, and some type of basic science course...along with others. In the first 3-4 years of service, most troops are not placed into leadership positions, much less be assigned as a rater for troops. Even after being a rater, this develops good bullet writers, but not necessarily someone that can place ideas on a page in anything OTHER then bullet statements. I would hesitate in providing a "general studies" degree for anyone with less then 6-8 years for Associates level and 10+ years for a Batchlor's degree...
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1LT (Join to see)
Your end points are exactly what the LTC is debating. At 10+ yrs in the military do we see any value in that?
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Maj Chris Nelson
I would pose the counter question of accreditation. What educational system would do that without documented proof of meeting criteria? Each military member's career is different, and while schools are also different they must meet specific standards. With tuition assistance, GI Bill, and real world management experience reflected by a DD214, this general studies degree for going to work really makes little sense to me. To drive home my point, if a highschool student started working at McDonalds full time, at the end of 10 years, would they be eligible for an associates degree? If yes, what would it stand for? Going to work for 10 years... If a person wants a degree they will make the extra sacrifices necessary to obtain it through a reputable school.
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I disagree...but. What needs to happen is education equity reform. Enlisted people posits hardship with service obligation and college courses, where as officers career has college built in. Its a tough gig for many. The mission comes first. I went 20 years enlisted, off and on with college courses and still no degree after 20 years of active duty. Many years and tears later... I have a masters now and 2 years post graduate; doctoral learner in education... organizational leadership.
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LTC Joseph Gross
Everyone has a different career and different experiences. I didn't work on my education until I was getting ready to leave my first post and switch jobs from Infantry to MI. But within three years I had enough college to attend OCS. Before I made CPT I sacrificed enough evenings that within three years of gaining a commission I had completed my AS and BS. I think it is all what you make of it and how much time you are willing to sacrifice.
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SSG Mike Angelo
Congratulations on your educational degrees while in service. Your work and personal sacrifice is a success story.
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MSgt (Join to see)
How about reforming the service colleges? The USAF has the community college of the Air Force that does provide an accredited associates degree that can transfer credits to 4yr college and universities. There are very technical skills that are taught and used in the military and certification (to include civilian) are now required, especially in IT career fields. The service member would still be required to complete general education ie...math, English, science but the MOS skills could equate to certain degree disciplines. This by no means "gives" a degree to SMs but provides more opportunities to receive credit for vital skills that have already been taught. I just finished my BS in Information Management and rarely opened the books due to all the IT classes and skills I learned while performing my duties so I may be biased on this question.
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LTC (Join to see)
College was not worked into mine. I worked hard and Uncle Sam didn't pay for my first degree.
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<p>I would have to give a definite NO, it wouldn't be worth the paper it was printed on, as others have mentioned there is no validation of standard to prove what has been done properly and to standard. Another issue is that AA in general studies would do nothing for you in the GS world of job applying, it is currently so competitive that a Bachelor's is not even worth anything higher than a entry level GS4/5 for most jobs now, anything above GS5 requires a Masters and above for positions in the current environment, so it would not benefit you in your military career for promotions nor would it do anything for you in the civilian sector. And to top it off it would be a slap in the face to every SM who ever sacrificed their time and efforts during deployments and family time to study and complete their degrees that they actually earned.</p><p><br></p><p>Not a good idea or even well thought out for the end state,</p>
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What in four years of military service would qualify as as a college education?
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Yes, BUT the military needs to align its training and education programs to civilian standards. There needs to be a civilian organization or organizations to take responsibility for these degrees and they MUST be ACE accredited.
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PO3 (Join to see)
For a degree to hold any real value, the granting institution needs to have a regionally accepted accreditation. ACE, in all honesty, really does nothing more than suggest to colleges and universities what they should accept military training as. It's up to the institution to grant credit or not.
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Sgt Jennifer Mohler
Then they should do that. That is what I meant by someone taking responsibility for the degrees. A regionally accredited school needs to put their names on it so the degrees are worth something and are held to the same standard as other degrees from accredited schools.
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MAJ Philip Costley
PO3 (Join to see) - Honestly, most accredited institutions don't think too highly of the educational value of military training and I don't blame them. In their defense, it's apples and oranges because so little of what we learn in the military is applicable in the civilian world.
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Absolutely not! This would be a total watering down of the process of accrediting your education. No one is more deserving than soldiers to GO to college and that is why the GI bill exists, but it is an overreach of entitlement to expect to be just given a degree for life experience, even combat experience.
A college degree should be earned through academic rigor, which is not a skill tested in the army. Sorry but it is a different skill-set.
Diploma-mills and for-profit schools have already devalued the education system, the military should not be culpable for the same sin.
Even if this idea did get approved, that degree would never pass accreditation muster so service-members would only be set up for failure.
That being said, expanding what kinds of credits CAN be earned for PART of an associates degree sounds like an ok plan. But I would not expect too much
A college degree should be earned through academic rigor, which is not a skill tested in the army. Sorry but it is a different skill-set.
Diploma-mills and for-profit schools have already devalued the education system, the military should not be culpable for the same sin.
Even if this idea did get approved, that degree would never pass accreditation muster so service-members would only be set up for failure.
That being said, expanding what kinds of credits CAN be earned for PART of an associates degree sounds like an ok plan. But I would not expect too much
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Simply put NO!!! Although I dreaded my time in college, I did sharpen skills that are key to success in the civilian market.
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I would argue that a "General Studies" degree is probably less useful than a high school diploma. Not sure who would accredit anyway.
There's time to get a real degree while on active duty, or afterwards using the GI Bill. No reason to play games and pretend we educate military personnel to the extent of a degree, because we simply do not -- and I am in one of the fields that has the most education as part of the job.
There's time to get a real degree while on active duty, or afterwards using the GI Bill. No reason to play games and pretend we educate military personnel to the extent of a degree, because we simply do not -- and I am in one of the fields that has the most education as part of the job.
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I would say for certain specialties such as Corpsman there should be additional courses that can be taken of ones own accord that would allow a degree to be granted with a certain amount of experience that is beyond the norm. i.e Corpsman with 10 years, the requisite courses and leadership experience qualifies for a degree in the related medical specialty. The degree should not be a check in the box. The reason that it has is because of the proliferation of the online degree. An undergraduate should require work and a retention of knowledge. If we give them away the bar will just be elevated and a master's degree will be the norm.
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