Posted on Oct 24, 2016

Should there be conversion of 19D MOS back to 11D?
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Cavalry Scouts seem to share a lot of related skills aside from specializing in reconnaissance. Back in time before Korean War I believe 19D MOS used to be part of 11 series, until someone decided that it better fits with Armor.
Nevertheless, we have 11Cs, who tend to do much less related work of actual infantry and more akin to artillery field, and then we have 19Ds, who do a lot of 11B work.
Nevertheless, we have 11Cs, who tend to do much less related work of actual infantry and more akin to artillery field, and then we have 19Ds, who do a lot of 11B work.
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Responses: 41
First off I am a little confused on your 11C comment. I was/am an 11C and I have done more Infantry shit than most Infantrymen, when I take a piss it comes out blue. I have carried more weight and walked just as far as any 11B in any of my units. I have cleared buildings/rooms with my mortar section/platoon. I have place indirect and direct fire on objectives from support by fire positions. I think your misconception of 11Cs is very skewed.
I will give you this, there can be a difference between a light mortarman and a mechanized/Stryker mortarman. This difference is also noticeable between the mechanized/armor and light Scouts. To answer your question I think the Cav should keep their own MOS if not for anything else, for tradition.
I will give you this, there can be a difference between a light mortarman and a mechanized/Stryker mortarman. This difference is also noticeable between the mechanized/armor and light Scouts. To answer your question I think the Cav should keep their own MOS if not for anything else, for tradition.
SPC Kevin Kilch
Nothing wrong with the hats. After all, the army does love tradition. That and those hats are part of a uniquely American uniform design. Prior to the mid-19th century, we were complete slaves to European military fashion.
CPT Larry Hudson
SPC Jamie Smith 3/5 cavalry D Troop first air cavalry authorized to wear silver belly stetson and yellow triangle neck tie in Vietnam thanks to Captain Ace Cozzalio and his badgering higher command. Salute Ace, we'll done.
CPT Larry Hudson
CPT Larry Hudson you can read about cozzalio'so heroic contributions to tracking scouting, cobra experiences by reading Rex Gooch book ACE
As a former 11C in the 82nd, I have to say mortar teams do primarily Infantry work, with a little indirect fire in support of their Infantry mission. Cavalry Scouts primarily perform reconnaissance in support of mechanized units, whereas Infantry units have elements assigned to perorm that task for them. I think 19D is a pretty hardcore MOS, and I think it should be celebrated as it is, and not moved to the Infantry series.
SFC (Join to see)
the original post is a little wrong. it wasn't in the Korean War. 11D changed to 19D in the early 80s with the extremely costly invention of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle.
I am sure that this question has been around the block a time or two, for exactly the same reasons.
However in American military parlance, they (the 19Ds) are cavalry (dragoons - mounted infantry).
However in American military parlance, they (the 19Ds) are cavalry (dragoons - mounted infantry).
SSG (Join to see)
Fun Fact: Scouts can go to an EIB. go through all the lanes, Ruck, shoot, everything! and even when we pass and get awarded the fancy little badge, we can't wear the damn thing. It'll go on our ERB and give us a couple points. But really isn't worth it to us.
SSG (Join to see)
SPC Ilya Arkadiev - Fun Fact: Scouts can go to an EIB. go through all the lanes, Ruck, shoot, everything! and even when we pass and get awarded the fancy little badge, we can't wear the damn thing. It'll go on our ERB and give us a couple points. But really isn't worth it to us.
MSG (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - I respect the tradition the Cavalry has with the spurs and Stetsons (which is why I brought it up) but to use defamatory language when referring to the EIB i.e. "fancy little badge" that's disrespectful especially as you pointed out some of the requirements needed in order to be awarded one.
MSG (Join to see)
1SG Jon Weiss - It appears that a kill or capture mission needs to be run by JSOC for the Good Idea Fairy. Unfortunately, I fear the GIF will be an extremely elusive target that will make the 9-year hunt for Bin Laden look like a game of Hide and Seek. Regarding your last line, if I may borrow from our 16th President,
SOME of the Soldiers can Infantry ALL of the time.
ALL of the Soldiers can Infantry SOME of the time.
However, not ALL of the Soldiers can Infantry ALL of the time.
SOME of the Soldiers can Infantry ALL of the time.
ALL of the Soldiers can Infantry SOME of the time.
However, not ALL of the Soldiers can Infantry ALL of the time.
No. Not at all. Cav primarily use Bradleys while the basis of infantry revolves around dismounted tactics.
SSG(P) (Join to see)
Well in my opinion it depends where you're. Personally the majority of training and operations I have been a part of have been dismounted supported by wheeled vehicles. Now for the first time in my 8 years I was placed as a Bradley Commander its been quite a ride to learn this vehicle and I'm not going to lie I've like the chance to learn other platforms but I will always enjoy and miss my dismount days. Nothing like creeping in the woods and setting OP/LP. I do always laugh when they say they mission tempo is stealthy and deliberate, I think they forget that there is absolutely nothing stealthy about the mini tank.
SSG (Join to see)
I recently returned from Afghanistan where my infantry company was attached to a squadron of the 3rd Cavalry Regiment, and I strongly reinforce my initial statement. They may have talents and abilities, but dismounted, small unit tactics was not a strength of those guys.
SPC David Willis
I was an 11B Bradley gunner, and Im not sure how 19Ds utilize their tracks, but ours was simply to get dismounts to the obj without them getting shot. Drop ramp, fall back and support by fire (big assed beautiful fire) or cordon off the area then pick everyone up and leave.
SGT Thomas Paretti
SSG (Join to see) there's light cav that uses Humvees and heavy cav that uses bradley's; just like 11b and 11m.
A conversion? No, I don't think so. Cavalry is Cavalry. Maybe make two separate MOS for the separate duty types(As in 11D Infantry Scout/19D Cavalry scout).
Personally, no Cav Scout I ever met did much "11B work"....Conversely, 11C's definitely do grunt stuff...especially in light or Airborne units. They carry a hell of a load.
Personally, no Cav Scout I ever met did much "11B work"....Conversely, 11C's definitely do grunt stuff...especially in light or Airborne units. They carry a hell of a load.

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Just to point out as again, as former 19D I have not been in Bradley for my entire active duty career and almost all of my work was done on foot in a 4 man team.
SGT Richard H.
That doesn't change my point. Infantry can self perform our recon at any level, and in fact, every Infantry Battalion I served in had a scout platoon full of 11's.
SPC Nick Patoka
I served with the 1st squadron of the 1st Cavalry regiment of Dragoons in Vietnam as 11D . I drove an ACAV ( Armored Cavalry Assault Vehicle) we did recon and occasionally dismounted payrolls . We were actually part of 1st armored Division ( old Ironsides) we were always considered Cavalry despite the dismounted patrols
Actually a little adjustment on timeline and the decision. 19D was created as a MOS in 1979, I believe, Full conversion from 11D did not really complete until sometime in 1982-1983 (this I watched with my own eyes). I was a member in one of the last National Guard units to convert from 11D to 19D, they did not have to recycle via AIT because they didn't change much in the training manual. The decision was made at the General Grade level because overall and across the Army the number of Cavalry Soldiers and units were declining........had nothing to do with Armor or being with Armor. It was Generals nostalgia at the time to preserve Cavalry units which where in fairly short supply in 1979 and dwindling. So in my view a rather dumb decision that has cost real money that could be used elsewhere. I have no idea what they teach about the History at Ft. Benning or about reactivation of the MOS 19D. I know what I heard in 1982 on how it was communicated to me the decision was made. At any rate once the decision to shift to an entirely new MOS, the Scout Section attached to our NG TOW Company, then wanted out of the TOW Company and wanted to be in their own Scout Company because they stated our training for 11H was so different they were not being trained to 19D standards (which I think was partly BS)...........and there it began. Realignment of 19D's out of Infantry Companies happened and when I went on Active Duty in 1984. Scouts were part of HQ Company in a Mech Infantry BN and had a Bradley M3 vs the Infantry Bradley M2.
If you ask me it doesn't really matter if they are a seperate MOS or in the 11 series job family, the only real difference is one approach spends more Taxpayer money over the other. So I am fairly neutral on rolling them back in. I think though from an administrative and career perspective rolling them back together might be better because it would make lateral transfers easier when one MOS gets short handed vs the other. However, since I was never 19D it does not make a difference to me.
If you ask me it doesn't really matter if they are a seperate MOS or in the 11 series job family, the only real difference is one approach spends more Taxpayer money over the other. So I am fairly neutral on rolling them back in. I think though from an administrative and career perspective rolling them back together might be better because it would make lateral transfers easier when one MOS gets short handed vs the other. However, since I was never 19D it does not make a difference to me.
SPC Erich Guenther
SSG Robert Webster - BTW, off our topic but look what I found on the Internet. Read the section starting on page 18 concerning Roundout units. I long since ETS'd before ODS but the reading and the final conclusion is rather interesting and will probably PO Active Duty folks if they read it.....
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ng/desertstorm.pdf
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ng/desertstorm.pdf
SSG Robert Webster
SPC Erich Guenther - Actually there was an MTO&E for the TLAT Battalions, it is actually referenced in FM 7-91 and the ARTEP 7-91 publications. It was one of the configurations that was covered in my AT training and in the AT training when I went to ANCOC. Even though the historical writings pretty much place these units in existence from 1981 to 1993, all 4 of them were on line by sometime in 1980 and the first was actually formed in 1977, they also lasted in some form until sometime in the early 2000's, though by that time they had usually gone from 5 line companies down to 3. I am actually quite knowledgeable about this type of unit since most of them fell under the umbrella of the XVIII Abn Corps, since three of the divisions that they were designed to support belonged to the Corps. I can even tell you that the 1/122 was attached to the 82nd and I believe that the 2/128th was attached to the 101st due to their historical linkage with the 8th Wisconsin. You should also remember that the TLATs were a critical component of the Light Infantry Anti-Armor Defense concept that was prevalent at the time, which was covered in quite some detail in FM 7-91 if I remember correctly.
SPC Erich Guenther
SSG Robert Webster - OK great, then if you have the TO&E for a TOW TLAT BN you have it. Yes the 101st was responsible for their AT evaluation when I was stationed with the 101st in 1986 and your correct about the shared lineage of the patch. Not trying to tick you off but in 1982 they were affiliated with 1st Cav, then the next year 10th Mountain Division but they did affiliate with 101st after that and for the longest period. Now here I am going off foggy memory but what I remember is mostly TOW gun jeeps and ammo Carriers. I believe the Cav Scouts had 2-3 Scout Jeeps with 50 cal or M60 mounted on a pedestal (like the TV RAT PATROL series) one Scout Section. We had 2 Medics - local EMT's with Fire Dept, 4 cooks, 2 NBC folks, 1 admin, 1 Training NCO, 1 RA Liason (so a total of three Active Guardsman), 1 Primary and 1 Secondary Armorer, 1 Supply Sergeant. I don't remember who else was in HQ platoon but we did not have mortars attached that I can remember because our mission I believe was to split up by section or platoon and augment various Infantry units with the 101st that had mortars. So we just needed to add to their overhead as a roundout Company.
SFC Joey Parton
I came in the Army in 1975 as a 11D in the regular Army my MOS was changed to 19D in 1977, I remember very well changing from a Reconnaissance Specialist to a Calvary Scout, there was no difference, we now fell under Armor as did 11E (Tanker). I retired in 1995.
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