Should trainees be allowed to quit basic training?

I'd like to see the option for trainees to quit until they complete basic training.

We aren't drafting people anymore and enlistment standards are rising. In other words, we don't need any particular enlistees. Accession school instructors should be solely in the business of shaping new SMs, not 'remotivating' kids that lack the maturity to succeed.

No harm, no foul DORs would also enable an abrupt increase in training standards that approach Marine OCS standards (a course that allows DORs).

Most importantly, the military services would shed their perception as a place to send kids that need to 'grow up.'

There was a time that only officers were viewed as professionals. That time is over. Making basic more of a selection experience than a transformative one will go a long way towards solidifying that fact.

I think they should be made to pay back the money invested in them and they should have thought before signing a legal contract. Legal contracts have consequences and like the saying says can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen.

Yes. It is a volunteer military, and if they don't want to serve, they need to be gone. Making them stay would serve no purpose. The volunteer military works because the team members want to serve.

ABSOLUTELY!! After 30 days confinement in Kansas!!

I think we need a different approach on how we assess new recruits. Just being to breathe and dome push-ups and sit-ups should not be a indicator someone is reddy for service. What I would do is something similar to the academies where they can quit at any time prior yo their junior year.

I would have them sign a conditional contract that allows the prospect to quit at anytime prior to the last half of training with an understanding that they are barred from any military or federal service for 5 years. This would be a penalty to think on but not a life altering one. After 5 years I would let them be reassessed but bar them from getting any sign up bonuses and they would have to pay back over their term of enlistment costs incurred from their first attempt. After 5 years they would almost be allowed to have clean slate including potential officer accession.

After the second phase has begun they can quit but with a little more stringent penalty. Bared for life any federal service no second look at any reentrance into the military.

I agree that we should not haphazardly let them quit at any time and any phase in the training. But this should two way process where if they just are not cutting it then a Matisse parting of ways would be better. As someone commented about wasting money on letting them goto basic and quit at anytime. I would rather not waste more money and resources to bring in the problem child that most likely will end up either being booted early or court martialled anyway. Being that we are now a military that has to do more with less we don't have the time or resources to be someone's surrogate parent anymore. It's our job to train to proficiency to serve the nation. It is not our job to be the babysitter to someone's immature millennial brat. Giving them 5years to grow up a little bit might make a retread a more capable service member. I would rather resources to training and proficiency of those who want to be there will benefit us more in the long run.

We invest many thousands of dollars in a recruit under the assumption that in return we will get some years of labor in return.

If they can quit, can we employ tort to recover the loss?

Sure, but trainees aren't free and come at a high cost. Anyone who quit must be financial responsible and pay ALL of the costs associated with training and processing.
Training: meals, lodging, transportation costs, clothing costs, medical costs and other training expenses.
Processing costs: Security screenings, medical expenses, testing expenses, hotels, meals, etc.

If they decide to quit they should be allowed to, but they should also have all benefits removed and their pay stops the instant they quit. Pay back any enlistment bonuses, etc. Other than Honorable discharge at the least, would like to see a "quitter discharge" as they are breaking a legal contract.

No but staff should be able to discharge those who are unsuitable on the spot, rather than sending them on for others to continually deal with for the rest of their enlistment!

No with a but. No it should not be as saying I quit. These young people who enter the service are going see and do things that they have never done before. Their initial reaction may be I can do this it is to hard, but the truth is many of them can. Let them be challenged then rewarded by proving to them selves that they are cable of meeting the changeless of tough training. They will gain confidence and pride in what they have accomplished.

But, if the DI finds that a troop who wants to quit is going to be a problem rather than an asset to the military by all means let them go. The DI's should be given and enlistment God Gun as well, if they have a troop that is meeting the standard but is going to be a problem for the receiving unit they should be able to recommend to the chain of command that that person be separated from service. How many of you have seen PVT FUBAR come Basic/AIT and wonder how did he/she ever pass basic and I want to strangle their recruiter. PVT FUBAR is now a problem the NCO corp and the unit commander who may have to show the troop to the door.

That may sound cold of me but I have seen troops come out of Basic who never passed a PT test and were pencil whipped through so the BT Unit would not have to deal with them. They seem particularly found of doing this with Guard and Reserve troops. Not our problem any more.

Another idiot that comes to mind could do his job sort of, but was walking safety hazard. He opened the air lines slightly on a truck though it would be funny, luckily no one was hurt. He also got a ticket right outside the main gate for 80 in a 55; the same week he went outside the designated travel area with two other trouble makers.

Who gets the Job of smoking the aforementioned idiots, me. They spent the better part of the night draining a huge mud puddle with buckets. To what end? I did what I was told to do, teach them a lesson. On the other hand you just can't fix stupid.

If they want to quit and go through the process like 1SG Gregory Bowman stated, they should have to pay back the money tax payers wasted on them for being weak little civilians. I am sorry if I sound harsh but other than, having a hard time finding certain jobs, holding being indebt would be a good idea I think.

Do we need them? Do we want them if they are going to quit? If you answered 'No' to those two questions, the answer would be yes. With the reduction in force, let those who don't to be there go.

Sure. Saves tax dollars. And as an NCO, it saves me a lot of time, effort, and headaches down the road by not having to deal with these kinds of problem soldiers if they are forced to stay in until their time is up.

I ended up in my air force life last three years. I was a combat controller ..wanted to quit so many times lifting logs to eat knee high in the surf. But I didn't. Difference in a man and boy

Sure if their cowards ....crybabies sure u want those guys with you ?

Had bronchial pneumonia in 64 65 due to the crap from the old coal fired furnaces at ft leonard wood.dec jan feb. I would have recycled rather than quit!@@.toughed it out. Served 6 years e5 in 3.

If they can't handle basic kick them out their going to be a drag on whatever unit they go to

They quite early, let them pay the gov't back for their training costs! Damn snowflakes

Yes, is this not a free country? I agree with LTJG, they should be allowed to exit rather than place other Soldiers at risk in theater because this is not that life for them. Unfortunately SIT's do no realize until basic training that they cannot carry out the missions. True strength comes in being able to stand up and say, hey I made mistake, now let's fix it....

Yes they should, i dont want them watching my back in combat if they quit during basic.

It's a contract that you signed and volunteered for! Why make it easier for those to quit when the going gets tough! I was not a man when I entered Basic Training, but sure was when I graduated! Military service is an honorable profession and one of the core values of the Army is HONOR! Be a Man/Woman and honor your commitment and contract!

I am in general agreement with most of the responses that say that new recruits should be allowed to quit. I don't think it should be easy, but I do think that if people find out that the military is not for them, then they should be given an opportunity to terminate their contract. As for the consequences of terminating their contract, it should be under the category of general discharge and incur no significant hardships, but give no rewards whatsoever.

My thought is this: why do we want people who don't want to be here? Any good organization should be built around individuals that want to be there. If people don't want to be part of an organization, but are required to, they are usually low performers and detrimental to the overall organization.
I think giving people an out in the early stages of training would help eliminate some of the problems we face as an organization. It's about creating an organization of people that want to be here and are motivated to do a difficult job. All good organizations and all good businesses have to work hard to keep good people and often get rid of people that "need" to be there.

I do offer a solution: Create an military-wide program (branch specific, Active and Reserve) that both evaluates and indoctrinates recruits prior to attending Basic Training. The Army National Guard has been doing this for years with their Recruit Sustainment Program (RSP). For three to six months prior to shipping to Basic, recruits attend a one-weekend-a-month drill intended to prepare them for Basic Training. During those drills, the new enlistments are given a PT test, complete administrative paperwork and learn Skill Level 1 Warrior Tasks. I think expanding that program throughout the military and making it a requirement for all new enlistments would greatly improve the military's ability to prepare and screen new recruits prior to their attendance to Basic Training.
I spent seven months as a RSP Instructor/SGL and during that time, there were recruits that decided the military was not for them as were able to terminate their contract (it was not an easy process, but easier than doing so at Basic Training).

In my humble opinion: The drill sargents should a go / no go a recruit in the end of basic....or alow the recruits to not continued to AIT

Yes sir .....I agree ....u can't never quit...never want that have my back ....never would trust em......can't finish basic training ....wow ........coward ...gave up ? Not exceptable

I say let them quit, but only allow them to do it like within a few weeks of basic. The military already has enough shitbags in it already, would be nice not to have them stay. When they are discharged it should be like if they never went in and take back there pay.

Lots of opinions here, but what is really needed are metrics. Do Soldiers who create problems in Basic Training ever adapt to being good service members and at what rate?

In the small population that I can personally discuss (my own Basic Training class), many good trainees ultimately had trouble in the regular force and either chaptered out or got out at the end of their initial enlistment. In other words, their Basic Training performance did not predict their actual performance. Some marginal trainees are still in...and still marginal...and we have been paying them a paycheck for 8 years and getting not much out of them (almost all are still E-4s). I am beginning to worry they will make it to retirement and get a check for the rest of their lives. We should have shown them the door (waiting for more leaders to catch on to using the "bar to reenlistment"). The worst trainees, the ones who make histrionic suicide claims, spent almost the entire time at sick call, etc. never finished Basic but were on the rolls (getting paid) for the entire cycle - some were still there when classmates finished AIT. 100% of these trainees (and I use that term for clarity, not description) would have quit if we would have let them. We should have let them. Their fake medical issues caused injured trainees to have to wait for hours. We probably spent at least 2 or 3 times on these wash outs then we spent on graduates.

I understand what it means to sign a contract, but understand that there are BIG costs to the military for forcing people who don't want to be there or don't belong into staying. The biggest cost, which a few people have pointed out, is that it hurts the image of military service and interferes with creating a professional force. In high school, I had two friends who were separately sentenced to military service (different cases, different judges). It caused me to view military service as akin to jail and did impact my decision to join after high school. We should have a reputation for kicking people out of Basic Training, not forcing people to stay in. Look at other things that function that way: medical/law school, Ranger School/Special Forces, firefighter/police academy, etc.

It should be hard to get accepted to even attempt Basic Training, and then finishing Basic Training should be a demonstration of your personal will, not something you cannot escape from...like prison. Just this one change would go a long way to change public perception of the Armed Forces. Yes, people thank us for our service, but deep down, many Americans still see us as a necessary evil and not as professionals.

I'm fine with the idea. If someone can't make it through 8 weeks of basic training - especially with as easy as it has become - then by all means chapter/get out. It may hurt the individual for a while if they got a chapter discharge, but the military isn't for everyone. Not to mention it would save millions of dollars not having to send them to AIT, pay them in the future, or pay their eduation cost (TA and GI Bill).

Choices have consequences, but does the military want Soldiers/Marines/Airmen that will choose to quit at the first sign of adversity?

In the Army, a Chapter 11(Entry Level Separation) is the method for separating "quitters". If a Trainee refuses to train, they are refusing the lawful orders of a non commissioned officer and are subject to UCMJ (usually an Art15) followed by separation.

The By refusing to separation "quitters", we are pushing a problem on to the operational force. In the long run, that will cost the military more resources, in time and money. I'd rather see BCT a a filter. High standards in initial entry standard create a better foundation for the fighting force.

It’s a sad reflection on our society, when it gets tough or hard just quit and collect free shit for life, no effort required. They should be put in the stocks and let the Sr classes torment them and pelt them with rotten fruit. Embarrass them then give then a dishonorable discharge that sticks fir life, you signed a contract, you took an oath...twice, anytime before that you could have just gone home.

I feel you sign a contract and make a commitment. What is your word worth, if you raise your right hand and make that commitment and then just walk away with no consequences if you don't like it. What does that say about you as a person?

They want out, let them out. I wouldn't want to be in a foxhole with someone that didn't want to be there.

Mixed feelings here. Boot Camps are supposed to test your mettle. So Id encourage those weaklings to not don a uniform. No shade...it ain’t for everybody.

There is a difference between being a Marine Infantryman, and enlisting into the easiest/safest/non-deployable branch/job (Air Force supply clerk?) ... and if you can’t even handle that, then Id ask how you handle eating food and converting it to poop...and maybe service is what you need to get yourself parented in the areas where your parents failed.

On the other hand, SERVICE is supposed to me more about what you can do for it, and less about what it can do for you.

No, get rid of them! They will only be a problem when they are sent to a post. They are not really motivated to finish and do not have the discipline. This happened to many back in the 1970s So many soldiers that should not have been in were stationed at Ft. Carson and it was a MESS. This was during the last of the Vietnam era soldiers recruited to serve.

I;m a retired USAF but a FORMER Marine.my boot camp was 1956.Living hell for 12 weeks.I saw some who flat could not make it and were let out.Back then one could NOT just say I quite.One man tryed to kill himself on the range because he failed to qual.Yes it was rough but those who worked to get out I would NOT like to have them with me on combat.If boot was too rough then what would combat be like for them. Military' has changes a lot.I have always been thankful I went through Marine boot as it made me grow up in a hurry and helped we throughout my USAF time.Let the DIs boot them out but with out honor..Now the ones how tried hard and failed are a different story.Let them out but with honor.

As long as they don't get an honorable discharge, I don't want them in a fox hole next to mine anyway.

In 1974, quitting was not an option available. But I can see letting some go. They will become a problem for the platoon during training. I do agree they signed a contract and should honor their word.

No, money and time invested warrants the contract the very reason it exists is for ROI. Secondarily what doe we then teach about commitment, this is another slippery slope for our military. Change is good when there is practicality and common sense applied.

My thoughts.

They absolutely should be able to quit.
Army Basic training is not hard. If they can't handle that, then we don't need or want them in uniform. Get the ones that can't hack it out early, before we've invested too much into them.

If you sign up for the military, Swear in,(most likely at MEPS when you complete your physical and then the day you leave for boot camp), You have had ample time to change your mind. You are signing a binding contract. Which is most likely the first adult thing you have done up to that point. Suck it up and get through it. In the end of it all, you will be a better person for it.
Do your homework and learn what is expected of you before you sign up. Tons of YouTube videos out there for basic training.
So no, I do not think anyone should be able to quit without repercussions. A lot of money will be spent on you on your journey. Only caveat I guess would be that you have to pay back what the military has spent on you, to include your trip back home. My 2 Cents

They should be allowed to be dropped. If not some Commander will have to deal with the individual latter. Better to cut our losses sooner than later. I would then issue a bar for the individual from future Military or Federal Service for 5 years, and bar them from Federal assistance (grants, EBT, welfare, loans). People need to understand that there are consequences for their actions. Grow up snowflake.