Should We Be Surprised By Male Sailor Misconduct Towards Female Submarine Officers?

This does not shock me, as the submarine world is much like tankers or infantry in the Army; no woman...

Clearly it is unacceptable.

I think this typical of what happens, or will happen when women are allowed to serve in jobs that were previously all male; "the he man woman haters" society.

This needs to be zero tolerance, and it needs to be clear that woman are allowed.

So, get over it.

1) Surprised? Yes. I'm shocked actually. That anyone can actually think this is acceptable anywhere. I don't get it. I understand erotica, porn, etc. But non-consensual videos, I just don't get it. When the first guy showed the second guy... how did the burn fest not begin.

2) I hope it's isolated. Because if this is endemic, we just need to scrap the entire sub fleet and start over.

3) There will always be idiots. When we catch them, we burn them, and we burn those who tolerate them. As for who's responsible. It's always the individual, but like an unsafe condition, if you see it report it.

Surprised? No.
Disappointed? Yes.

Women on submarines was an inevitability. Having been on a submarine, there is next to no privacy. What was done is unacceptable and should be dealt with swiftly and in accordance with the UCMJ. The message needs to be sent out that such behavior will not be accepted.

In my opinion, such an action by sailors places blame not only on them, but also the command for not effectively setting the atmosphere on the boat. If they can't change old behaviors then room needs to be made for people who can. The sailors aren't kids and neither are the officers. They volunteered to serve. If people have problems following orders or a change in mission, they can very well deal with it until their discharge and leave.

Back in the 80s this idea came up, women on submarines. Us bubbleheads all said "are you freaking nuts?" Not saying women can't do the job but the stress of submarine life without both sexes on board is bad enough. Adding this stresser into the mix is bad news and now we see why.

Unless you have ever served on a submarine you can not understand the life. I see a comparison to a tank crew. Not even close. The closest you might get is being on the space station and even then it is tenuous at best.

Studies are showing that submarine vets especially nuke electricians suffer a form of PTSD. Why? Because they are on alert 24/7 for months on end. No fresh air. No sunlight. No outside communications. No way to actually tell what day it is or time either. It is an isolated world.

Why nuke electricians? Because we owned the submarine. I hear this has changed recently. But we owned everything that had power going to it. We owned the "grid". I could be changing a light bulb one minute and then working on a highly technical generator the next. Any time power went out somewhere the electricians were called. It was rare for us to have "time off".

We were in 3 section rotation. That meant 6 hours of standing watch, 6 hours of doing maintenance and supposedly 6 hours of sleep. But for electricians it meant 6 hours of watch 6 hours of working on something, 6 hours of drills, 6 hours of watch, 6 hours of maintenance, 6 hours of cleaning (field day) etc etc. It was not uncommon for us to go over 48 hours without sleep. Most I ever did was 108 hours straight. Major piece of equipment was broken and I was the only one certified to work on it. I fixed it and started hallucinating I guess. I don't remember that part of it.

Anyway. Back to the point. This is not an excuse for what was done. These guys need to be punished. But maybe the Navy needs to rethink this issue too. How about an all female crew? Why not? I think by NOT doing this the Navy is saying women can't do the job.

Oh and I have seen women in the military (and as a civilian) doing things like this too. It isn't just a male problem.

Stop with the social engineering in the military.

I find the state of anyones surprise to be irrelevant. The fact that this is despicable, disrespectful, and downright wrong, is independent from being surprised. This needs to be dealt with swiftly and strongly and steps taken to try and prevent it.

Hell yeah we should be surprised MAJ (Join to see)!

Sir, this is not the behavior we expect from our professional military force. We should be ashamed and appalled as well as motivated to take action to prevent a repeat of this indecent behavior. All of our Service Members should expect, and every one of them sure as hell deserve better!

I think the use of the words "should be" implies that "surprised" is a condition in which we aught to be.

And maybe we should be.

But many of us aren't.

http://www.worldwideweirdnews.com/2013/05/27318.html

I AM surprised that the footage passed through at least a dozen sailors before one of them decided that the other guys were thoroughly (and inevitably) screwed.
Mind blown.

Yes, we should be surprised that grown men, with security clearances and the trust to run a multi million dollar projection of national power acted like a bunch of middle school kids trying to look at their dad's playboys.

This is not acceptable!

We should keep in mind the various formerly all male communities will be undergoing changes as women are increasingly integrated into these areas of service. Also, keep in mind that behaviors and attitudes stem both from the bottom up (what people's upbringing provides) and the top down (what they seem to be told or are shown by example is OK). In either case, the military has always been a microcosm of the good and bad in society in general. Also, keep in mind until society as a whole provides strong actions in society to curtail such behaviors from the carpet sweepers to the CEO level, we will continue to have such behaviors. Each each one of is accountable male and female to assuring proper behaviors are adhered to!

In his book, Its Your Ship, Captain Abrashoff points out the issue of personal responsibility and accountability from the deck seaman to his role as CO. We'd do well to help men and women officer and enlisted ask the simple question: What if this were their sister, mother, grandmother or wife that had been violated in this way. We have to look at ROOT CAUSE and not simply punish some. If we punish without getting at the root cause and helping young men and women to take a different approach, then punishment alone may drive others to even more negative behaviors.

As an HMC I have had to deal with these aftermaths and is not fun! We have to remember that everyone has a right to privacy and a violation of that privacy, how every small a space it comes in, is a violation of TRUST. Sailors on subs must trust each other, as sailors, marines, airmen and solders in any unit that is highly successful, must trust each other, otherwise unit cohesion goes into the toilet and a CO's ability to maintain HONOR in their command is - SHOT TO HELL!!!