Should We Be Surprised By Male Sailor Misconduct Towards Female Submarine Officers?

Back in the early 80's, at a convention in Las Vagas with a group of Navy fliers they had problems with the male fliers groping and other things with the female fliers it was referred to as the tail hook incident

When I was Master at Arms to Chief of Staff, Commander Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command, had to take one of my fellow first class in front of the Adm for writing something sexist on our Outgoing Female Lts going away card. When they first opened up the Surface Ships to the Ladies it was a Nightmare initially. Nothing surprises me and I rack this up to growing pains.

Shocking! You could knock me over with a feather! When did male sailors start liking to look at naked girls? ;)

I served in submarines when it was still all male. We did do several day cruises familiarizing Female Midshipmen with Submarines.
Being in such a confined and restricted space privacy is a rare comodity and needs to be respected. This closeness gave crew a feeling of comraderie and even family. I would never find it acceptable for a 'brother' to disrespect another member of the crew this way!
The Submarine Service has always maintained the highest standards and traditions of the Navy. ANYTHING and ANYONE that detracts from that needs to lose their dolphins!

Having been in the Navy for 16+ years and stationed at Commands performing Diesel Electric and Nuclear Submarine repair, I was stationed with female Sailors all of my career. I have great respect for these women and would proudly serve with them again! Does it shock me to learn of young Sailors video recording female Officers in various stages of undress? Hell no! You are talking about junior Sailors who in some cases haven't even had a mature relationship with a woman, much less learned how to act like a mature male Sailor. This problem is not unique to the Silent Service or the Surface Fleet either. In 1980 my ship, the U.S.S. Ajax (AR-6) had four brand new female Ensigns recently report aboard just prior to me reporting aboard. The crew was for the most part very respectful to these Officers, with the occasional whispered remark between enlisted Sailors. I can't speak for the male Officers from the wardroom. One thing that our command had was training about "Women in the Navy". This was one on the first training courses which included sexual harassment, how to spot it, report it and avoid it. The crew was also reminded during training that these Officers were an essential part of our crew and would be training and working on qualifications just as their male counterparts would be. We were expected to act like mature Sailors and treat everyone with respect. In those days one could expect your Leading Chief Petty Officer or Leading Petty Officer to put the boot in your a$$ if they heard or saw you disrespecting a superior, especially a female Officer. I believe the "old ways" of discipline worked better when it came to correcting a problem at the lowest level unless it required the attention of the XO and CO to hold formal Non-Judicial Punishment for the offender(s).
I believe it is parents and societies responsibility to teach both boys and girls how they are expected to treat each other. When this doesn't happen, you end with youths making poor decisions both in the civilian world and the branches of the military.

Surprised? No.
Disappointed? Yes.

you seem to be assuming that this sad policy will never be reversed. it's obvious that, for the men at least, having to LIVE in close quarters with the opposite sex presents an additional stress in an already stressful environment. and to what end?

Unfortunately, male submariners can be very childish. Also rember that most are single and can be young as 18 or 19 years old. Everything is well pretty close onboard and we'll nature can happen after seeing the same woman for 6 months. You stand watch, train, eat, sleep around them, do drills, clean, and spend more time with them then your own family. In fact you would have to put into each submariners mind to treat each other like family. So you need to get the crew together and say that we are a family of sorts in that you need to treat each other with respect. Yes it will be hard listening to a female officer giving out orders or direction but you have to respect their rank. If they are earned their dolphins like everyone else then they should get the same respect. It it going to be interesting with them getting rid of job titles. A crew operates better when they know what each one does. So now they will say hey Petty Officer what tyoe school did you come from. Only the Administration Office would know only because of their orders of new people. But now you wouldn't have Yeoman anymore so who would know, no more detailer either but that is another discussion all togther.

YN1 (SS) Arnold, Kevin Retired.

Unfortunately this behavior does not shock me at all. We are living in a society that has seen several states outlaw females from wearing leggings in school as they have been determined to be a "distraction" for boys. Instead of us as parents teaching all of our children to treat each other with dignity and respect. Our puritan ways when it comes to nudity are not helping us raise young men the right way. I hope that those involved are punished to the maximum allowed under the UCMJ!!

Surprised: No same shit happened when they allowed women on Combat ships in the early 90's. It needs to be cracked down on right away to keep it from getting worse.