Posted on Feb 17, 2017
Similar to the E-2 question, how would you react to a young 2LT who is being unprofessional with a strong sense of entitlement?
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Here's the background. You are an experienced Soldier. You walk in to the commissary to see a young 2LT shopping with a headset on. You professionally and politely get the 2LT’s attention and address the deficiency. They blatantly are rude, dismiss your comment, and tell you that those rules do not apply to him as an officer. Whether you are an Officer or Enlisted, how do you react?
Military bearing
Discipline
Supervisor
Leadership
What Would You Do
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 445
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We had one like that in the field in Nam, he thought he was better than anyone wouldn't listen to us older grunts. A Charlie sniper took care of him. He wore his shiny butter bar on his helmet.
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SGT Randall Smith
John, we had one just like that. Chewed us out the first day he arrived because our boots were not shined, belt buckles not shined and no one saluted him. He was to be our XO. Our 1st LT set him straight but when he was in charge he reverted back. I came back from an R&R and he was gone. Something happened in the bush.
Later I got shot and the 1st Sgt took away my radio and put me to running convoys. Had a 2Lt had been there two weeks and I was taking him to an outpost. Before every convoy left I checked every weapon to make sure it was loaded and the safety on. I got to the Lt and he would not let me have his. Took it from him and found it was rusted shut. It got wet and he did not clean it. Wanted to know if he could use mine or one of the guys weapons. After we all quit laughing I took him to the TOP. We got back 3 days later and he had been relieved of his squad and sent to Can To, Bn HQ. They had already relived and sent to Saigon. He probably got out a 2Lt.
Later I got shot and the 1st Sgt took away my radio and put me to running convoys. Had a 2Lt had been there two weeks and I was taking him to an outpost. Before every convoy left I checked every weapon to make sure it was loaded and the safety on. I got to the Lt and he would not let me have his. Took it from him and found it was rusted shut. It got wet and he did not clean it. Wanted to know if he could use mine or one of the guys weapons. After we all quit laughing I took him to the TOP. We got back 3 days later and he had been relieved of his squad and sent to Can To, Bn HQ. They had already relived and sent to Saigon. He probably got out a 2Lt.
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I was a young PFC in Armor AIT when a female 2ndLT walked by. I saluted, and she ignored me. She found out real fast what the son of a Puerto-Rican 1stSgt thought of stuck up 2ndLts. She turned and returned my salute.
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The SNCO jungle drum network operated at the speed of light in my day. An officer with this attitude quickly found a field grade officer giving him/her the evil eye and ordered to seek out the enlisted man and offer a heartfelt apology for being such an ass. Then officer EMI began. Although I will say that a LT who displayed this kind of attitude had a very limited shelf life. If he/she didn't get "it" in training they probably never would get "it".
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SMSgt Roger Horton
The nomenclature for this 2nd Lt would go something like: No purpose, olive drab, 1 each.
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Handle per the words of former SgtMaj USMC Leland B "Crow" Crawford, with firmness, fairness, and dignity. Be professional but get the job done. It's just another of the many "situations" that folks in uniform have to navigate daily. If you're junior then your responsibility to regs stops at making him aware of it and tactfully suggesting that he square himself away for the good of the service. It's a judgement call from there, but it doesn't give you a blank check to violate the UCMJ so it's tricky. If senior then it's basically a one-way conversation without debate, and should be a learning process for the 2Lt.
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MAJ (Join to see) If available, find an AF First Sergeant or AF SMSgt. It's been my experience they make it a full time job making these type of on the spot corrections. They don't care who it is, seem to enjoy it.
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MSgt John McGowan
Sir. But it so much fun, I used to do it on breaks and lunch so I would be able to inspect the barracks. Just having a little fun Sir. No offense in tended. Hope non taken.But when you have hundreds of men you dot hat a lot. Former AF 1SGT.
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CDR Jon Corrigan
MSgt John McGowan - MSgt - it is absolutely, positively impossible to offend me. I thoroughly enjoy both poking and getting poked. Some of my best memories revolve around protecting 'my guys', both enlisted and officer, against regulation bullies.
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MSgt John McGowan
Sir. I was always a good guy until a Capt. (AF) type made me pretty damn mad. He supported the man that broke the Reg rather than me. I walked out of the meeting, he was the EOT officer and needless to say we didn't get along at all after that. But I was the Shirt. If he ever went to the Col. I didn't hear about it.
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If we are both in uniform and he really thinks I don't know better than the rules don't apply because he is a boot ass butter bar, he's either a dumbass or a jackass.
If he's a just an entitled jackass he will eventually pull that dumb shit with the wrong person and things will work themselves out.
If he is simply a dumbass who really believes the rules do not apply because he is a commissioned officer, he will likely end up hanging his own ass out to dry by walking off a dock or into a live fire range.
Or maybe I drop his name in conversation with one of the many outstanding officers who know and obey the rules as they should. One of them is likely to encounter that youngster eventually and make the correction.
If he's a just an entitled jackass he will eventually pull that dumb shit with the wrong person and things will work themselves out.
If he is simply a dumbass who really believes the rules do not apply because he is a commissioned officer, he will likely end up hanging his own ass out to dry by walking off a dock or into a live fire range.
Or maybe I drop his name in conversation with one of the many outstanding officers who know and obey the rules as they should. One of them is likely to encounter that youngster eventually and make the correction.
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CDR Jon Corrigan
Not all 'boot ass butter bars' are equal, as I learned quite early. Neither was the Boatswain's Mate Second Class Petty Officer who's spouse was a private secretary to a former Secretary of State. That one was painful for an entire nuclear powered aircraft carrier for about a month.
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GySgt Kenneth Pepper
Understood, however, the scenario clearly depicts a 2nd Lt (or Ensign) that believes he is above the rules. 95% of the newly commissioned officers I served with remembered who it was that taught them how to be a Marine (a SNCO). Only a handful had the sense of entitlement depicted here. The term "boot ass butter bar" is clearly in order for those who think this way.
I can't remember who said it, but the quote "the battlefield is littered with the bleached bones of officers who didn't listen to their NCOs" comes to mind.
I can't remember who said it, but the quote "the battlefield is littered with the bleached bones of officers who didn't listen to their NCOs" comes to mind.
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CMSgt Frank Dailey
Matt is that what you are expected to do and a NCO? What if that failure reaches the point where someone gets killed?
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What we did back in the 70's as NCO's was never give them any advice, then watch them screw up. Trust me they always do. When they ask us, we would just say "sir I don't know, I have never been in that situation. "Then sit back and watch them get their butts chews by their superiors and laugh.
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