Posted on May 27, 2017
To really excel within the ranks of the Army, must I serve in the infantry? Do I need a CIB/EIB, like the Chief and SMA?
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Many of us 11B have no CIB. You can make a success of any MOS you desire, but you have to know what you really want. I had two goals: Get a retirement, make SGM. I made both. I could have made CSM, but I didn't want it. What do you want? Then you have to focus to get it. The road is not easy and you will probably have to make many turns in your career - I did. You will not always get to do the things you want to do because there are goals you want much more. NCOERs, ratings, don't want for someone to do them, stay on top of your Chain of Command. Getting assignments, reach out and get them - sometimes they are not the most glamorous, but it is the experience you want. Do your promotion packets. Education will play a major factor. When it comes down to it, it is you who will hold yourself back or you who gets you moving.
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SSG (Join to see)
SPC Eric Hurdle - Typically they will fill the role as an OPS SGM at either Battalion, Brigade, or Division levels. They're still a SGM (obviously), just not in a command position. Similar to a MSG and 1SG lateral promotion.
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SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM
You should strive to do what others will not do! You want to 1st be highly competent in your MOS and then seek broadening assignment to provide you with a total understanding of how the military works from different perspectives and don't overlook getting the most of civilian education opportunities.
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No one joins the Army to be a general. You join the Army to serve and lead. If you do it well enough you will promote. As for being infantry. It is a field that produces many General officers. Just as a alibi I am an infantry officer with a CIB and Ranger tab. The reason why you see so many generals that are infantry is because the Army is based around the Infantry. We are the heart of the army and Generals will command large infantry units in combat. In the army all the major divisions in the Army are infantry such as the 82nd and the 101st. If you were to take a job like signal officer there are no divisions are major commands in deployable units. You would have cyber command but you will never see a signal General command maneuver units. The Army is just not set up that way.
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CPT William Jones
one of the biggest reasons for more General officers from the infantry is that is the largest corps in the army the group that is biggest probably has the largest representation at the top also.
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Do a job that you love to do. That's the best way to excel. Only you can determine what success means to you, and your idea of it will likely change over the course of your career.
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PV2 (Join to see)
Thank you SSG, I didn't see it like that. I'm going to serve as a Paralegal with hopes of becoming a JAG officer after finishing my JD in school.
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Clearly not... SMA Raymond F. Chandler, SMA Kenneth O. Preston, SMA Jack L. Tilley, and SMA Robert E. Hall, the previous 4 SMAs, were non-infantry Soldiers.
That said, it makes sense you see a lot of leadership with CIB. EIB and/or Tabs because there are more leadership positions for those individuals. Most major and key positions in the Army are Combat/Maneuver commands, because the central role of the Army is Combat/Maneuver.
You can excel in the Army regardless of your role, but just as Rated members (Pilots) are central to the Air Force command structure as the Air Superiority branch, and Surface Warfare officers are central to the Navy as the Sea Power branch, Infantry and other Combat Arms leaders are central to the Army structure as the Ground Warfare dominance branch. It wouldn't make sense for most Navy leaders to be pilots, for most Air Force leaders to come from Security Forces, and it wouldn't make sense for most Army leadership to be drawn from non-maneuver branches.
It's not about fairness, it's about proper preparation for the job.
That said, it makes sense you see a lot of leadership with CIB. EIB and/or Tabs because there are more leadership positions for those individuals. Most major and key positions in the Army are Combat/Maneuver commands, because the central role of the Army is Combat/Maneuver.
You can excel in the Army regardless of your role, but just as Rated members (Pilots) are central to the Air Force command structure as the Air Superiority branch, and Surface Warfare officers are central to the Navy as the Sea Power branch, Infantry and other Combat Arms leaders are central to the Army structure as the Ground Warfare dominance branch. It wouldn't make sense for most Navy leaders to be pilots, for most Air Force leaders to come from Security Forces, and it wouldn't make sense for most Army leadership to be drawn from non-maneuver branches.
It's not about fairness, it's about proper preparation for the job.
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2LT (Join to see)
And I just realized my inner NCO is showing... for Chief of Staff of the Army (CSA), CSA GEN Raymond T. Odierno, CSA GEN Martin E. Dempsey, and CSA GEN Peter J. Schoomaker, three of the last 5 CSA's, have been non-infantry branch officers.
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Pick combat arms if that is what you want to do. Originally, I went Military Police. I eventually transferred to Armor in the California Army National Guard. I went to the Armor Captain's Career Course. I later went to Civil Affairs in 2006. I have a diversified background. The LTC I just commented about did not diversify except being an OC-T. Nothing wrong with following your dreams. Just My Honest Opinion.
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No, just do your job, and take pride in a job well done, a combat patch applies to any MOS,,,
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Check out GEN Ann Dunwoody (Quartermaster Corps).
She doesn't have a CAB either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_E._Dunwoody
She doesn't have a CAB either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_E._Dunwoody

Ann Elizabeth Dunwoody (born January 14, 1953)[2][3] is a retired general of the United States Army. She was the first woman in U.S. military and uniformed service history to achieve a four-star officer rank, receiving her fourth star on November 14, 2008.[4]
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It is interesting that you ask this. I just heard from an outgoing lieutenant colonel who was our Deputy Brigade commander and served well and received excellent officer evaluation reports but yet he did not make full bird colonel and he is retiring next month because he is hitting 28 years as an officer. He said he's always stuck to be an armor officer always combat arms and that was his biggest mistake. He said he only knows one combat arms officer who made it to one-star general. He is referring to our former Brigade Commander. He suggested that you diversify into other branches of the army to make yourself more marketable. Our audience in our training command is predominantly made up of senior captains, Majors and Lieutenant colonels. I'm sure many of you will disagree on this opinion of his. He didn't go into civil Affairs or psyops or Branch transfer into Logistics. Maybe this would have helped him go to get to Colonel. The Brigade Commander had some parting words of praise for him saying how the outgoing Deputy Commander was five steps ahead of him and already had taken care of his first five questions about the unit and the Brigade Commander was scratching his head saying he can't believe he did not make O- 6 and he will be missed
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SGT (Join to see)
SSG Robert Webster - He was a great leader. He was my division commander at Fort Stewart when I was in the 24th ID. You and I were in the RDF at the same time according to your profile. We probably did a lot of FTX with each other! I did not know he was a mustang!
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SFC Mark Biggs
I served in Regular Army Infantry battalions (1/22 and 1/6) where I served under 3 field grade officers (major and lieutenant colonel) who years later retired as 2-star, 3-star, and 4-star Generals. They all started at West Point, where they earned Bachelor's degrees. They were commissioned in the Infantry. They all were Airborne Ranger qualified. They all commanded Infantry platoons, companies, battalions, brigades, and divisions. They all served in combat and had the CIB. They all had earned at least 1 Master's degree during their service. So, you can see that a lot of hard work, hard training, and tough education is involved. Go become the very best you can be.
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LTC Stephen Conway
SFC Mark Biggs - I think the reason my stellar Lieutenant Colonel didn't get picked is because he is in the Army Reserve and no combat aside from some attack Aviation. Thanks for your comments and you are right being in combat arms doesn't cause and impediment and usually means success.
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LTC Stephen Conway
I would think of myself a lot cooler if I had his 1970 Chevelle Super Sport with an SS 454 in my garage. I don't give a crap about climate change I just want to run a 14 second quarter mile and Burn Rubber fishtailing. I don't give a crap about Green Party I don't give a crap about Governor Brown and his climate change agenda and I'm sure as hell not going to pay for his high speed Japanese style real that he wants California to pay for it.
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To succeed what you could do is to break your butt doing your best, quietly do much more than is asked of you. Take it easy, do not always be the first to respond, save your strengths for when a problem arises! Maintain a superb appearance and conditioning; when a problem arises that you can solve/conquer- go DO IT! Keep your mouth closed - unless you are absolutely correct. Do not presume to advise those appointed over you! Save their ass from the fire if need be, and shaddup!
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SSG Robert Webster
There are times when you are absolutely correct and still need to keep your mouth closed.
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PV2 (Join to see) Have you ruled out the other branches? I would go with the MOS that you truly desire. If you listen, observe, and work hard, you will be successful. Good luck.
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No, it's just common to see people from the infantry branch in senior positions because there are far more infantrymen in the Army and far more infantry leaders. There's only one armored division commander, only one cavalry division commander, but there are a dozen infantry division commanders, etc.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SSG Robert Webster - Yes, Yes he was....I was his G3 SGM for a while... Great leader.
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SSG Robert Webster
SGM Erik Marquez - I was his Company Operations NCO when he was the Company XO for C 2/508. LTC(R) Keith Antonia was the Company XO before that. Both served as Platoon Leaders under MG Dorian T Anderson's command.
An interesting aside about that time period and unit are the number of General Officers that served in that unit (2/508th PIR) between 1982 and 1986, as 2nd and 1st LTs. COL(R) Ralph E Newman served as the Battalion Commander and GEN(R) Henry H Shelton served as the Brigade Commander for most of that time period.
Sorry about all of the name dropping.
An interesting aside about that time period and unit are the number of General Officers that served in that unit (2/508th PIR) between 1982 and 1986, as 2nd and 1st LTs. COL(R) Ralph E Newman served as the Battalion Commander and GEN(R) Henry H Shelton served as the Brigade Commander for most of that time period.
Sorry about all of the name dropping.
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SSG (Join to see)
SSG Robert Webster, I'm not saying non-infantry don't get those positions, just that it's not as common.
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SSG Robert Webster
SSG (Join to see) - I know what you are saying. Bottom line, it is a numbers game.
How many Infantry Lieutenants for every support branch Lieutenant? The odds highly favor the Infantry. when compared to all other branches combined.
How many Infantry Lieutenants for every support branch Lieutenant? The odds highly favor the Infantry. when compared to all other branches combined.
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I see you have received some excellent advice from people who have excelled in their chosen profession, I'd start off by listening to them,as far as going Infantry and CIBs and such ,be very careful what you wish for.
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No, you do not. However, they are indicators of where your head is. If you love being a grunt, as I and others have, you will strive for perfection in everything you do, under the worst that conditions and available equipment have to offer. The more difficult the challenge, the better. There's only one way to get the CIB, and it comes with the territory. To get the EIB you have to be tough as you can be, without being tested in actual combat. Both are badges to be proud of.
Others of course are Airborne, Ranger, Pathfinder, Sniper, etc. All require a thirst for a hard to reach prize, not a giveaway. They ask the most of the best. When a reviewer looks at your EER for the purpose of promotion, those awards say something about you and your ability to do the impossible in an impossible situation. Competition is tough and to stand out from the pack, not only do you have to lead out of physical toughness; but mental as well, to be able to overcome hardship, lack of sleep, and men that are demoralized by it. Situations that would cause others to tuck tail and run are what you look for, and what make you the leader. Being able to type error-free at 75 wpm does not make you an Infantry Leader.
If you're in the Infantry, and you do not care to excel in the physicality of the MOS, then you my friend are in the wrong MOS for a carrier slot. I can not speak for the other branches of Combat Arms, Armor and Artillery; but I'm sure they demand the same level of leadership qualification.
Let me give you an example; while stationed in Germany I had the opportunity to run the combat in cities course at Hoenfields, for V Corps. Staff. This is basically an infantry school, but at the time it was considered "Adventure Training" for them. One part of the program required them to enter a two story building from the top floor via a grappling hook and rope. Very few were able to get the hook into the window, and fewer still were able to climb the rope. My cadre did it for fun! Now that's not saying the V Corps staff were slackers or anything like that. It was just not a requirement for the MOS. Big difference!
Sure you could probably find a spot in some I.D. that you could skate along without the above, but if you're 11B and you don't want those badges of recognition then choose another MOS that you can be your best at.
Others of course are Airborne, Ranger, Pathfinder, Sniper, etc. All require a thirst for a hard to reach prize, not a giveaway. They ask the most of the best. When a reviewer looks at your EER for the purpose of promotion, those awards say something about you and your ability to do the impossible in an impossible situation. Competition is tough and to stand out from the pack, not only do you have to lead out of physical toughness; but mental as well, to be able to overcome hardship, lack of sleep, and men that are demoralized by it. Situations that would cause others to tuck tail and run are what you look for, and what make you the leader. Being able to type error-free at 75 wpm does not make you an Infantry Leader.
If you're in the Infantry, and you do not care to excel in the physicality of the MOS, then you my friend are in the wrong MOS for a carrier slot. I can not speak for the other branches of Combat Arms, Armor and Artillery; but I'm sure they demand the same level of leadership qualification.
Let me give you an example; while stationed in Germany I had the opportunity to run the combat in cities course at Hoenfields, for V Corps. Staff. This is basically an infantry school, but at the time it was considered "Adventure Training" for them. One part of the program required them to enter a two story building from the top floor via a grappling hook and rope. Very few were able to get the hook into the window, and fewer still were able to climb the rope. My cadre did it for fun! Now that's not saying the V Corps staff were slackers or anything like that. It was just not a requirement for the MOS. Big difference!
Sure you could probably find a spot in some I.D. that you could skate along without the above, but if you're 11B and you don't want those badges of recognition then choose another MOS that you can be your best at.
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CPT William Jones
Top tab on the left sleeve is Sapper I believe it is open to all mos . A hard 3 week course I have been told.
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The Infantry is the best branch in the Army in my opinion, its definitely the best branch to get promoted in thats for sure. The question is, do you want to be 60+ years old telling your grand kids that you sat behind a desk, or tell them that you close with and destroyed the enemy and got it in. Thats what made me choose Infantry.
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SFC (Join to see)
So much subjective opinion and ego in your response. Your pride is understandable, but doesn't answer the original question.
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You are looking to go into JAG Corps, which is a pretty important job, if you are enlisting for that, you can usually ask for special schools like Airborne, Air Assault on your first enlistment which will give you a few extra points when promotion time comes around. A typical bit of advice I give to kids here in town that are looking to sign up is to consider first enlistment go combat arms so that you get a real sense of those on the ground. When you are up for reenlistment then pick your JAG (or whatever your interest is) this way (keeping in mind what the overall mission of the Army is) you will always have in the back of your mind what the true purpose of the Army really is, and you can do your job better for the over all mission and unit, gives you a better sense of what is really needed.
Just a thought to consider
Just a thought to consider
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There are more opportunities in the maneuver fields like infantry and armor but that doesn't mean you can't be successful in other fields. It takes all kinds to run an Army. Just give 100% to what you do, always exceed the standards, be pro-active and you will succeed.
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PV2 (Join to see) I don't want to be a Dream killer, but your odds are like 2-4% In becoming a general officer from Colonel. The Army tends to agree. DA PAM 600-3 will tell you that reaching Lieutenant Colonel is considered a successful career. Further, Colonels are considered senior leaders in the Army.
Combat Arms Officers in particular rise to serve as general officers, I think it really boils down to Brigade as a Colonel and Division Level command as a two star. there are not really as many Brigade and equivalent commands Other branches produce general officers but they don't have near the number of functional billets. Example, "The" Judge Advocate General, the senior lawyer in the Army is a 2 star. That's it, top end. I believe the senior Chaplain is a two star. The most senior Army logistician is a four star and Commands Army Materiel Command. On the joint side the J4 is a three star, that happens to be an Army Logistician. The G4 of the Army is a Two star. There are a handful of commands at the GO level in logistics, but not nearly as many division commands and equivalents. Three star logisticians are even rarer.
The other school of thought is that the combat arms officers understand more about warfighting. The counter argument to that is at the operational and strategic level, logistics and planning are more important than the tactical level and resourcing warfighters ismof increased importance.
As far as schools and badges, you should have the training and experience for the positions you are in. There is no magic formula. Generally combat arms officers should go to Ranger school. To go there you generally need to be Airborne qualified. As an infantryman, the EIB is coveted and sought after. For a logistician, it is rare to see a ranger logistics guy, but they are out there. Served with several. Generally, but not always, success in the 101st leads through Air Assault School. Combat badges are subject to luck (lucky you lived to tell the tale), timing (there was a fight to show up at) and circumstance. A CIB or CAB may make you think twice before committing your folks in harms way or recommending to the President we go to war.
Do your job, do it well. Take care of your people. That is all that is important. The awards, badges, etc are what they are.
Combat Arms Officers in particular rise to serve as general officers, I think it really boils down to Brigade as a Colonel and Division Level command as a two star. there are not really as many Brigade and equivalent commands Other branches produce general officers but they don't have near the number of functional billets. Example, "The" Judge Advocate General, the senior lawyer in the Army is a 2 star. That's it, top end. I believe the senior Chaplain is a two star. The most senior Army logistician is a four star and Commands Army Materiel Command. On the joint side the J4 is a three star, that happens to be an Army Logistician. The G4 of the Army is a Two star. There are a handful of commands at the GO level in logistics, but not nearly as many division commands and equivalents. Three star logisticians are even rarer.
The other school of thought is that the combat arms officers understand more about warfighting. The counter argument to that is at the operational and strategic level, logistics and planning are more important than the tactical level and resourcing warfighters ismof increased importance.
As far as schools and badges, you should have the training and experience for the positions you are in. There is no magic formula. Generally combat arms officers should go to Ranger school. To go there you generally need to be Airborne qualified. As an infantryman, the EIB is coveted and sought after. For a logistician, it is rare to see a ranger logistics guy, but they are out there. Served with several. Generally, but not always, success in the 101st leads through Air Assault School. Combat badges are subject to luck (lucky you lived to tell the tale), timing (there was a fight to show up at) and circumstance. A CIB or CAB may make you think twice before committing your folks in harms way or recommending to the President we go to war.
Do your job, do it well. Take care of your people. That is all that is important. The awards, badges, etc are what they are.
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In 1973 on the DMZ Korea, there was a foot doctor, who was a Captain, but he didn't really do anything for the men, just stay behind his desk, probably just signing paper work.
Lucky there were two E-6's that were Vietnam medics that took care of all, I mean all the medical needs of battalion, saved lives too.
When asked, "Why a foot doctor and on the DMZ, and not down south at a hospital?"
His reply, "I volunteered, You can get promoted faster in a hostile fire zone."
I hope his reply can shed light on your question, he like everyone else on the DMZ got hostile fire pay, but his was more.
I never cared about that Captain during my time on the DMZ, but surely cared for those two E-6's.
And more power to him for getting promoted to Major for just being there, when the men suffered and some died, not having a qualified trauma doctor on location.
The Medevac takes 20 minutes to get to the DMZ, by then a young man lost his life after being shot, and still to this date, "I blame that Captain for only being there just to get promoted." Salute, Sir!
Lucky there were two E-6's that were Vietnam medics that took care of all, I mean all the medical needs of battalion, saved lives too.
When asked, "Why a foot doctor and on the DMZ, and not down south at a hospital?"
His reply, "I volunteered, You can get promoted faster in a hostile fire zone."
I hope his reply can shed light on your question, he like everyone else on the DMZ got hostile fire pay, but his was more.
I never cared about that Captain during my time on the DMZ, but surely cared for those two E-6's.
And more power to him for getting promoted to Major for just being there, when the men suffered and some died, not having a qualified trauma doctor on location.
The Medevac takes 20 minutes to get to the DMZ, by then a young man lost his life after being shot, and still to this date, "I blame that Captain for only being there just to get promoted." Salute, Sir!
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