Posted on Nov 26, 2016
To what extent does one tolerate divisive rhetoric and dissension within the ranks?
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I have already asked my NCOs to discuss the ramifications of divisive rhetoric and criticism of our incoming CiC. However, some Soldiers feel the need to rebel. When do comments become grounds for separation?
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 62
What is the Panic over the Trumpster... They should Be better off... and we Pray they will not be Hamstrung like they were under BHO...And they will not be sold out or Left behind as they were in Benghazi
and when all else remind them of UCMJ articles 88 and 92... we were reminded of them during Bill & Hillary Clinton's first ruling Regime...
and when all else remind them of UCMJ articles 88 and 92... we were reminded of them during Bill & Hillary Clinton's first ruling Regime...
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I too admit to once being young and oh so foolish :)
All it took was my fellow platoon leader looking me in the eye and saying, "you know you could get court martialled for saying that right?" A tad embarrassing but I never made the same mistake again.
To answer your question CW2 (Join to see) it can become grounds for separation following documented counseling and documented proof of corrective training and documented evidence of failure to comply with corrective actions. Be sure your NCOs are all on the same sheet on this because the JAG defense lawyers are very good.
Failure to comply with orders and regulations can lead to actions such as letter of reprimand to article 15 to court martial (Art 92 [disobeying order or regulation] or Art 117 [provoking speech]).
For officers Article 88 of UCMJ is blatantly clear:
“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
Army FM 27-1 covers soldiers rights to exercise political freedoms and this is a pretty decent article covering partisan and nonpartisan activities by Active-Duty Military
https://www.thebalance.com/military-folks-and-politics-3332818
All it took was my fellow platoon leader looking me in the eye and saying, "you know you could get court martialled for saying that right?" A tad embarrassing but I never made the same mistake again.
To answer your question CW2 (Join to see) it can become grounds for separation following documented counseling and documented proof of corrective training and documented evidence of failure to comply with corrective actions. Be sure your NCOs are all on the same sheet on this because the JAG defense lawyers are very good.
Failure to comply with orders and regulations can lead to actions such as letter of reprimand to article 15 to court martial (Art 92 [disobeying order or regulation] or Art 117 [provoking speech]).
For officers Article 88 of UCMJ is blatantly clear:
“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
Army FM 27-1 covers soldiers rights to exercise political freedoms and this is a pretty decent article covering partisan and nonpartisan activities by Active-Duty Military
https://www.thebalance.com/military-folks-and-politics-3332818
What Can Military Members Do and Not Do in Politics
I receive a lot of questions about what military members are allowed and not allowed to do when it comes to politics. Federal Law (Titles 10, 2, and 18, United States Code), Department of Defense (DOD) Directives, and specific military regulations strictly limit a military active duty person's participation in partisan political activities.
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They have been able to infiltrate Academia, from elementary all the way to Universities, what have they accomplished in our Armed forces?
We know about the purges, what about the force itself?
We know about the purges, what about the force itself?
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When haven't we had "bitching and moaning" in the ranks. The issue is what do they do. Also, there is a big difference between time, place and actions. If you have an ass in the ranks who can't do their job - then it matters. Troops (regardless of service) did a lot of "talking" during Vietnam. I definitely had my opinions with people I could trust. I asked my dad later about WWII and he said the same. However, there is a big differenced between voicing something and doing something as well as being annoying to others in the process. If I could trust the people over me and under me to do their job, that's what mattered regardless of the assignment, location, or risk.
Also, having served under several CICs and SODs, 1) We never knew who would be good, bad, mediocre. I respected some and showed the obligatory respect to others. Like others, I did my job as if it mattered to those over and under me, to other military members who may be impacted, and to the people of the US. -- some of whom were definitely anti-military. 2) It didn't matter. In fact, like may others at that time, I couldn't even vote.
Now retired from the military, I do voice my opinion about those in office because I still care about those who are presently serving in the military and for vets who are not getting the benefits and medical treatment promised. For those serving our country, many retirees continue to be your voice. God Bless you for serving today.
Also, having served under several CICs and SODs, 1) We never knew who would be good, bad, mediocre. I respected some and showed the obligatory respect to others. Like others, I did my job as if it mattered to those over and under me, to other military members who may be impacted, and to the people of the US. -- some of whom were definitely anti-military. 2) It didn't matter. In fact, like may others at that time, I couldn't even vote.
Now retired from the military, I do voice my opinion about those in office because I still care about those who are presently serving in the military and for vets who are not getting the benefits and medical treatment promised. For those serving our country, many retirees continue to be your voice. God Bless you for serving today.
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SFC John Cancienne
Sir, "bitching and moaning" is one thing. To complain of having to go out and do police call after morning formation is one thing. Openly talking about the Commander in Chief is another. It comes down to insubordination. There's the risk if allowed, when it's starting to hit the fan, and the CiC has ordered them into a dangerous situation, this rebellious streak may lead them to refuse. Once that happens, everyone is in jeapordy.
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If you let standards slip in one area you are going to see them slip in others. Discipline requires an even hand across the board. People have a right to an opinion but how a Soldier expresses that opinion is covered by military regulations. At the end of the day you may have to make an example of someone.
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in the millitary we live by our oath, " to obey the orders of those appointed over us" period whether you like it or not, get out or stay in that's your option, but if you stay in and speak against the cic, then be prepared
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I'm old school...even to this day. Young troops know if I give the (your not going to like the outcome) look, it's because at some point they have been trained to respect whether they like it or have been respected themselves. Criticism of a negative nature builds a strong back bone. Troops and civilians alike need to realize names only hurt if you allow yourself to so insecure that it rings true. Much less sticks and stone that can only hurt you if you don't know how to or care to dodge them and fight back. Constructive criticism is the most important. Example: "why are you crying, your better and stronger then this." Everyone needs to know what they're capable of. Being shushed for PC reasons has no place in the military or even life as far as I believe.
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When it begins to erode unit cohesiveness and have detrimental effect on mission readiness. If they rebel against orders of those above them in the chain of command, then refer for NJP or process chapter separation as appropriate.
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My "shoot from the hip" response is... While I think discussion of leaders, policies, and topics can be good, I've noticed that some opinions are more respected and held in majority than others. Once it starts affecting the mood, climate, etc. it becomes a problem. Once the mission becomes affected it would be high time to step in and stamp it out. Good luck, Chief.
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The military is not a social media platform. Throughout our country's history there have been elections every four years. Not everyone gets what they want 100% of the time. There is so much information available at the touch of a button these days, people receive information from many sources, some valid and many invalid. Wherever you get your information is irrelevant however keep your personal thoughts personal. The military is similar to many other employers where communicating your feelings in an unprofessional manner is not tolerated. We are talking about politics here, everyone has a differing opinion on hundreds of subjects. All politicians make promises, say things that offend a portion of society, and make decisions that some feel are incorrect. Keep in mind that our country is the greatest on earth because of our democracy....Respect It!
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