Posted on Aug 6, 2015
Turkish President may reignite conflict with Kurds for political reasons. Does this affect how you view US involvement in countering Daesh?
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When our own NATO allies can't be trusted to not attack the only dependable fighting force in the conflict, can we actually trust that our own contributions are going to be worthwhile?
From the Article (since preview can't be edited and NYT comes through like crap) -
"Now a sharp critic of Mr. Erdogan, Mr. Kiniklioglu said, “I think there is little debate among normal and sane people in Turkey” that the war with the Kurds is being used as a tool to reverse the election defeat. The Justice and Development Party, known as the A.K.P., recently began conducting nationwide polls to see how it might fare in snap elections, which could be held as soon as November."
From the Article (since preview can't be edited and NYT comes through like crap) -
"Now a sharp critic of Mr. Erdogan, Mr. Kiniklioglu said, “I think there is little debate among normal and sane people in Turkey” that the war with the Kurds is being used as a tool to reverse the election defeat. The Justice and Development Party, known as the A.K.P., recently began conducting nationwide polls to see how it might fare in snap elections, which could be held as soon as November."
Turkey
ISIS
Posted 9 y ago
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We need to understand that those nations live there. They understand their neighborhoods. We need to respect their decisions, they are our friends, not our tools. The Turks are a professional military more than up to the task of dispatching Daesh. They will also take any opportunity to maintain/improve their position with the Kurds who are likewise watching for Turkish weakness to exploit while they battle Daesh in their area. We like the Kurds, we like the Turks. We can custom tailor our levels of indirect support, but these little fires have to burn. Just the way it is.
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SGT Jeremiah B.
I think you're right, but if there's anything I've learned in this - none of the local actors care enough to commit to the problem (except Iran). Left to their own devices, I think most of them would let Daesh do what it wants until it consumes Syria and Iraq. From a US policy perspective, that seems to be a giant problem since we can't fix the problem without them.
Interestingly, much of Turkey's problem with the PKK evaporated with the advent of the Kurdish autonomous region in Iraq. They seem, at least in the short term, to have a place to call their own.
Interestingly, much of Turkey's problem with the PKK evaporated with the advent of the Kurdish autonomous region in Iraq. They seem, at least in the short term, to have a place to call their own.
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COL Ted Mc
SGT Jeremiah B. - If the Kurds would abandon all claim to land inside Turkey's legal borders, I suspect that the Turks would do two things almost instantly:
[1] assist the Kurds to acquire an equivalent amount of land elsewhere, and
[2] pay the freight for moving (and re-establishing) every single Kurd out of Turkey and into Kurdistan.
Since the Kurds are (primarily) Sunni, they should be able to fit in quite nicely in those parts of Iraq and Syria that ISIS is currently occupying.
I suspect that the Kurds would see the wisdom of trading a part of their "traditional lands" (which they have never actually held sovereignty over) for a chunk of actual real estate that would be a real country - especially if someone else is helping to pay the bills for doing so.
[1] assist the Kurds to acquire an equivalent amount of land elsewhere, and
[2] pay the freight for moving (and re-establishing) every single Kurd out of Turkey and into Kurdistan.
Since the Kurds are (primarily) Sunni, they should be able to fit in quite nicely in those parts of Iraq and Syria that ISIS is currently occupying.
I suspect that the Kurds would see the wisdom of trading a part of their "traditional lands" (which they have never actually held sovereignty over) for a chunk of actual real estate that would be a real country - especially if someone else is helping to pay the bills for doing so.
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Sad, but not surprising SGT Jeremiah B..
Turks generally have looked out for their own since they were established in the 10th or 11th centuries. As their empire expanded voluntarily and contracted involuntarily after they lost conflicts, they focused on saving their people and what was important to them. They viewed the Armenians as a tool of their enemies and a thorn in their side and did their best to annihilate them during WWI. They have worked to extinguish the Kurds as a people and made it illegal to speak or write Kurdish until August 2002 and has been strongly opposed to the establish of Kurdistan as a nation.
http://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/cultural-survival-quarterly/turkey/speaking-kurdish-turkey
Turks generally have looked out for their own since they were established in the 10th or 11th centuries. As their empire expanded voluntarily and contracted involuntarily after they lost conflicts, they focused on saving their people and what was important to them. They viewed the Armenians as a tool of their enemies and a thorn in their side and did their best to annihilate them during WWI. They have worked to extinguish the Kurds as a people and made it illegal to speak or write Kurdish until August 2002 and has been strongly opposed to the establish of Kurdistan as a nation.
http://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/cultural-survival-quarterly/turkey/speaking-kurdish-turkey
On August 2, the Turkish parliament passed a reform bill that introduced a number of remarkable changes in the letter of the nation's law. The bill reversed several longstanding policies: the death penalty was abolished in peacetime, non-Muslim religious groups were given the right to purchase property, and Kurdish-language private schools, television, and radio broadcasts were legalized.
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SGT Jeremiah B.
LTC Stephen F., Turkey has always been problematic when it comes to minorities, but this seems to cross into actively opposing the 'war effort' ongoing against Daesh. We NEED the Kurds to hold the line and keep them contained. They're the only ground force we can actually depend on.
It seems that at some point, we're going to have to pick a side and that's not going to be pretty.
It seems that at some point, we're going to have to pick a side and that's not going to be pretty.
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I am ashamed and outraged we allowed and keep allowing the Turks kill the Kurds. After all the Kurds have done for us like stop the ISIS advance, they become canon fodder for political enemies. It is tactically and strategically unsound, an we have turned our backs to the most loyal of allies. Our stupidity know no limits.
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COL Ted Mc
MAJ Ken Landgren - Major; Unfortunately, in "The War On Terror" the PKK is a terrorist group (according to the US government) and it's pretty hard to jutify having "Good Terrorists" and "Bad Terrorists".
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Until recently, Turkey seems to have been a strong NATO Ally. We knew some time ago that supporting one faction of Kurds might someday lead to a conflict of interest with Turkey. Watch closely to see how it is handled, for we have made mistakes in the past with groups aligned with us. Whether or not the current move by Mr E is political is difficult for us to say with certainty from a distance. Media reports alone are not reliable. Social Media is not reliable nor often credible. It does appear to be an appalling situation, but we certainly do not have all the facts. The northern Kurds have been our Ally for several years. Turkey has been our Ally much longer. Northern Kurds seem to have established a more secure area than any other in the region. Turkey has long muttered about it. Turkey is in a unique position to do much good. Let's see if they will do it.
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SGT Jeremiah B.
I've been watching the Kurdish issues for a while now, both through media and talking to vets that actually served side by side with them in the GWOT. By all reports, the Kurds have proven quite adept at creating a reqion that was stable, accepting of minorities and largely free of insurgent activity. Faced with Daesh, they've fought like hell.
Turkey, on the other hand, has proven less than dependable and has a long track record of horrifying conduct towards minorities. They also seem to have become increasing autocratic under Erdogan.
I HOPE Turkey comes to see the value in a Kurdish state along their border, but somehow I think they're going to screw everything up and force the Kurds to consider the current conflict a two-front war.
Turkey, on the other hand, has proven less than dependable and has a long track record of horrifying conduct towards minorities. They also seem to have become increasing autocratic under Erdogan.
I HOPE Turkey comes to see the value in a Kurdish state along their border, but somehow I think they're going to screw everything up and force the Kurds to consider the current conflict a two-front war.
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Just a God Awful Nightmare and Quagmire. The Kurds have been fighting forever for their own homeland/country in the area between Iran/Iraq/Turkey that they occupy. Each one of the Countries have pitted Kurds against each other and have put their own people in Kurdish Territory to displace and/or rule over the Kurds. Anyone we help in the neighborhood will use the opportunity to screw with their opponents. We have had a "Spy" base in Incirlick since the Bad Old Days of the Cold War so we are tied to Turkey. Turkey if not part of the EU already has been petitioning for a long time for membership since they stradle Europe and Asia. I see this as a No Win Situation no matter what we do or don't do. I still would love to see the Kurds finally get a country of their own.
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Turkey should recognize that Daesh on their borders is a bigger threat than the Kurds. Daesh could easily become N existential threat, the Kurds aren't.
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SPC Mike Losser
Turkey should be sanctioned or booted out of NATO for the attacks on the Kurds. The Kurds have eliminated more ISIS/ISIL/DAESCH then any country. They have had some support from Coalition forces bombing marked targets. Our fearless leader even gave Turkey the ok to kill Americans who are fighting with the Kurds. What is he thinking. Radical Muslim Extremists are like Rats and the only way to eliminate them is to kill them. Take all the traps (Kurds) away and the rats will grow in numbers and spread across the world. We should be giving the kurds support and not giving a terrorist supporting nation money to open up our military airfield in the country. Rambling, but you can not let anyone support ISIS or attack the only people trying to eliminate them.
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