Posted on Feb 10, 2016
Unauthorized Boots, why do SM keep wearing them?
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Responses: 66
I think the uniform emphasis has decreased for two reasons. 1) Due to all of the uniform changes over the last decade, leaders have become tired of it. Multiple uniforms, boots, IBA rules, PT belts on FOBs, etc. As long as soldiers don't look completely crazy most leaders have better things to do with their time. 2) This funny thing called war has been going on and people actually had to fight in what they were wearing. Even senior leaders spent time in kit patrolling and meeting senior indigenous leaders. During this time they realized that a lot of these unauthorized boots are really comfortable, a lot more comfortable than the cheaper issued boots. I think this is the biggest reason you see a lot of leaders looking the other way. They can't look their soldiers in the face and tell them to wear that boot over there just because its authorized. We all like to take care of our feet...its a day 1 basic training task.
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SSG Dave Johnston
Here's your culprit: Berry Amendment, USC, Title 10, Section 2533a, originally passed in 1941 to require a buy-American policy for the military. The latest version, which took effect Nov. 16, 2006, prohibits the Department of Defense from buying items of clothing "unless they are wholly of U.S. origin."
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Sgt Dale Briggs
You should have the clunky black things we had to rear in the 70s, they served no real purpose. Weren’t comfortable, leather so your feet sweated, heavy. Pure torture.
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LTC William Fisher
As an old soldier, we wore Tanker Boots, Corcoran Jump boots, and maybe some others that I have forgotten. As a Tanker, I do not ever remember being questioned about my Tanker boots. Sure are more important things to worry about. Forgot jungle boots.
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SSG Jeffrey Monk
That's what I loved about being in LRSD. We were allowed to wear and use good quality equipment that we bought ourselves rather than the crap the Army issued. While on my first deployment the moly stuff was all new and we were allowed to toss what wasn't very good and a lot of us personalized our kit the longer we were there.
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Long story short in my opinion, their leaders allow them to without consequences or because their leaders themselves are wearing them!
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In the Marines we didn't really have this problem. If the boots didn't have the Egale, Globe and Anchor stamped on the outside of the heel, then they aren't authorized!
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SSgt Mark Lines
SGT(P) (Join to see) - Not only did it make it easier to enforce the regs, in my mind it added a "cool factor" to them for the junior Marines.
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PO2 Robert Cuminale
The same with my "sailor suit". Almost everyone has it tailored especially if you're 6 ft and 165 lbs. Other wise the stove pipe trousers and jumper are baggy.
The same with the dragons and confederate flags sewn under the cuffs and on the inside of the back. None of it is legit but I don't remember anyone being told not to wear it.
The upper ranks have always modified their uniforms. Eisenhower wore his signature jacket and Patton wore a pair of ivory handled pistols. Custer designed his own uniform with enough braid and curlicued gold to decorate a French whore house.
The same with the dragons and confederate flags sewn under the cuffs and on the inside of the back. None of it is legit but I don't remember anyone being told not to wear it.
The upper ranks have always modified their uniforms. Eisenhower wore his signature jacket and Patton wore a pair of ivory handled pistols. Custer designed his own uniform with enough braid and curlicued gold to decorate a French whore house.
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SSgt Kyle Holler
PO2 Robert Cuminale - I know the sewing of stuff like that is part of the unofficial Navy tradition.
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Sgt Dale Briggs
Makes too much sense right? Just stamp them or dump em. Hell we didn't have a choice, but I bet the PFC might stay that way a bit longer than necessary.
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If they are unauthorized then DON,T SELL THEM ON POST! Not at the PX , Not at Clothing and Sales. That way they will have to go off post to get them! then you know if the troop bought them at the Clarksville US Cav they aint right! Bam problem solved. Oh wait that makes sense.
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SGT Bryon Sergent
Brigit Freedman - If they are unauthorized then you can't wear them regardless of the comfort!
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PFC Adam Whirls
SSG Fin Jake That’s a false equivalency no one is suggesting wearing tennis shoes in combat which would be the equivalent to your argument they want to wear a more comfortable pair of boots. So a correct equivalency would be they want to wear a more comfortable helmet.
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SGT Bryon Sergent
Brigit Freedman - Trust me as a former Infantry soldier I am all about comfort. But here is the deal, why let Joe's go out a spend 300 dollars on a piece of equipment they can't wear by reg and going to get caught by the CSM and then that shit ball roll down hill. Isn't easier just not to sell it on post? Everyone thinks that if it is sold at clothing and sale or PX it is authorized.
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Personally, I feel that the regs are too tight for boots. COLOR for uniformity.... brand?! Not so much. Lets face it, there are LOTS of boot/footgear makers that make some really good stuff. WHY should troops that need to have good foot gear not be allowed to find the boots that fit the best, provide the best support, and are most comfortable for their INDIVIDUAL FOOT not be allowed to find their footgear? So, AAFES doesn't have to sell all types..... but as long as they meet color requirements, let it be.
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CW3 Kevin Storm
To me, if it meets mil spec, I could care less who makes them, as long as they are not made in China. For years troops wore German Combat boots.
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Sgt Tom Cunnally
We wore brown ankle high boondockers when I enlisted but a few months later we were issued black boots that we liked because we didn't have to shine them. I liked the old brown boondockers because we didn't have to blouse our dungarees when we wore them.
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SFC Bill Snyder
Back in the old Brown/Black boot Army there were issued boots and Cochran Jump Boots. No one in the Airborne units would be caught dead in the issued boots; the Cochran were sold in the PX and off post. NO ONE ever complained.
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There are some excellent points made in some of the comments. I agree that comfortable boots are important however, regulations are regulations. Should we change or improve some regulations, yeah we probably should but, until they change they must be enforced. Most of the companies that make these boots have made an "AR 670-1 authorized" boot to replace the ones shown in the picture. Nike for example replaced the unauthorized leather with authorized cattle leather and they are still comfortable.
Comfort is important but durability is more important. If your Soldiers are walking patrol in raggedy ass boots on the third month of a nine month deployment, there is a problem. NCOs should be enforcing the standard and showing their Soldiers that there are comfortable boots that meet the standard.
Comfort is important but durability is more important. If your Soldiers are walking patrol in raggedy ass boots on the third month of a nine month deployment, there is a problem. NCOs should be enforcing the standard and showing their Soldiers that there are comfortable boots that meet the standard.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
CSM (Join to see) and even the most unknown brands state if their boots are IAW AR 670-1 or not. I was net browsing for boots and was surprised on how many brands there are available and how many boots are in reg.
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SSG Anthony Jennings
We had this problem in the early 90's with the Hi-Tech boots. The fit and felt like tennis shoes and could be shined, for those of us that remember shining boots. I work for the Orthopedic/Podiatry Clinic at the time. At that time, in order to be authorized, a boot had to be a certain way, i.e. it had to have a heel the could be removed and repaired. Not sure these days with the tan swede, but bottom line NCOs need to enforce the standard and not shy from the responsibility. I remember the days that the Post CSM would walk the PX during the day with gigs, waiting for anyone to correct him.
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PO2 Ron Gunsolus
Right on point... do we have a culture that follows regs or not? That is the core issue here; Integrity.
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SSG (Join to see)
I had issues boots that fell apart 1 month into a deployment, my aftermarket boots lasted way longer.
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I see several reasons for this.
1) Leaders aren't aware of all of the "unauthorized boots", as there's a s-ton of them floating around in stores. Some of the boots in the photo would set off the "something's not right" alarm, just by the color/shade of the boot - but there's several out there that are the right color of tan (and I suppose even the coyote brown color for the new OCP) and hard to distinguish from authorized and unauthorized. It's easy to call out a Soldier on unauthorized gear when the color isn't right or something stands out as not normal - but not every unauthorized boot does.
2) I haven't been on a military base for almost a year - but I recall the PX/military clothing & sales having boots for sale that weren't authorized. That's part of the problem with Joe - if it's at clothing & sales, it must be authorized? Hopefully this has been or is in the midst of being corrected, as clothing & sales shouldn't carry anything that isn't authorized and even for the commercial geardo stores within the PX - they shouldn't be authorized to sell unauthorized clothing items either imo.
In the end, it's on the leaders and the individuals themselves to ensure they adhere to standards. So the blame is equal imo.
1) Leaders aren't aware of all of the "unauthorized boots", as there's a s-ton of them floating around in stores. Some of the boots in the photo would set off the "something's not right" alarm, just by the color/shade of the boot - but there's several out there that are the right color of tan (and I suppose even the coyote brown color for the new OCP) and hard to distinguish from authorized and unauthorized. It's easy to call out a Soldier on unauthorized gear when the color isn't right or something stands out as not normal - but not every unauthorized boot does.
2) I haven't been on a military base for almost a year - but I recall the PX/military clothing & sales having boots for sale that weren't authorized. That's part of the problem with Joe - if it's at clothing & sales, it must be authorized? Hopefully this has been or is in the midst of being corrected, as clothing & sales shouldn't carry anything that isn't authorized and even for the commercial geardo stores within the PX - they shouldn't be authorized to sell unauthorized clothing items either imo.
In the end, it's on the leaders and the individuals themselves to ensure they adhere to standards. So the blame is equal imo.
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SMSgt Thor Merich
Great point. At my base, we have had issues where military clothing sales sells items that are not regulation. Its fairly reasonable for a soldier/airman to assume that they would only sell authorized equipment.
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MSgt (Join to see)
Clothing Sales wants to make money as any other store does, so it's unfeasible that they'd sell only items that are authorized. There are dependents, retirees, etc that shop there as well. Also, say the stores did move to selling only authorized items, who's regs would they follow? Even in that scenario, I'm sure a soldier wouldn't consider wearing black boots with ACUs because he/she's stationed at a Navy base and Clothing sales sells everything authorized.
I agree, its an individuals responsibility to purchase within regs and his/her chain to enforce.
I agree, its an individuals responsibility to purchase within regs and his/her chain to enforce.
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PFC Bradley Campbell
i say we go back to black boots and polishing them. TOTALLY kidding here. with the advent and success of the hunting and para military supply industries and the quality of footgear, the government needs to relax on boots and either let people get what they like or start providing the same boots we can buy anywhere.
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I brief my Soldiers about all the variations of boots. I actually took pictures of all the boots sold at the local PX and Patriot Outfitter store on post. If I am going to make a 200+ dollar purchase out of my pocket I would want to ensure that they are authorized for the uniform. NCO's especially should be counseling their Soldiers on what is and what is not authorized. Due to all the variations of manufacturers it can be somewhat confusing but a few minutes of research can answer all your questions.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
CSM (Join to see) that's a great practice, that's exactly what I do before investing on boots.
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In my mind, it comes down to lack of leadership and maybe a lack of a clear standard. As an NCO/ SNCO, you have responsibility to ensure that not only your people meet all regulations, but yourself as well. In the case you sited, leadership was not happening. As an outsider looking in, it seems as if the Army's standard for footwear is not clear. If you have to show a slide containing examples of what is NOT authorized, then the standard is not clear. One idea is to give them a list of what is authorized, and ensure the PX/ BX only stocks those choices in the uniform shop.
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I'm guilty of this one. Back in the day we wore jungle boots in CONUS because they were much more comfortable. And yes, we used the zipper inserts too. The general thinking was if they were sold in the uniform shop, you were good to go. I also wore non-issue Danners much later in life simply because they came in EE which "official" didn't come in. They kept the water out better too. My take it's one thing that gets scrutinized more when you're not deployed. I will have to say, anything not looking good would get dinged. As a Skipper, I left enlisted uniform issues up to the SEL and officers to the XO.
It's interesting looking at the pictured list that the boots shown are "bedroom slipper" versions of real durable and safe boots. That type would not pass the SEL or XO test. Seabees also purchased specialty boots that made work in their trade safer like corks. You want to break new boots in Stateside before counting on them in the badlands.
It's interesting looking at the pictured list that the boots shown are "bedroom slipper" versions of real durable and safe boots. That type would not pass the SEL or XO test. Seabees also purchased specialty boots that made work in their trade safer like corks. You want to break new boots in Stateside before counting on them in the badlands.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
CAPT Kevin B. out of the picture, there are just 4 models that pretty much everybody knows are out of regs. Why don't you just avoid those? That's my thinking.
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CAPT Kevin B.
Actually Ronnie, we'd say "send me to the South Pole?". We had the air insulation moon boots issued but they were horrible when doing a traverse in a tracked vehicle, getting out all the time to drill marker flags or take ice cores. So I had a canvas mukluk that had this big insulated sock inside. We saw quite a few uniform "violations" down there. "Little John" wore a top hat whenever he was in the grader. Had to because without it, we'd never see him. Everything was considered "Org Gear".
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PO2 Robert Cuminale
I was a Construction Electrician and was expected to wear issued boots to climb poles with climbers. I finally wrote up a chit and petitioned the CO to buy me a pair of boots suitable for the work I was doing and it was approved.
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