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It's still very early on in my career but I am seriously debating following one of these two paths. Can some of you current or past First Shirts / officers of any rank give me some insight? My main goal here is to be a positive role model, mentor and leader to young Airmen. My mom is a First Sergeant and she is nothing short of perfect at her job. I want to be able to see my troops succeed and grow, but I'm still not quite sure which viewpoint I want to do so from.
Commission
Role Model
Leadership
Airmen
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 52
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You can be a positive role model regardless of your choice. You can also see them grow through or as a result of your actions through either career choice.<br>The difference is the level at which your decisions will be effective. As an officer you will have the opportunity to affect the lives of many more than you ever will as an NCO. The unfortunate side effect is that your effect on them will not usually be as personal.<br>The good though, is that if you are a positive role model for other leaders, they in turn will become great leaders as well.<br>So the real question is, are you a hands on leader or can you lead from the front and trust others to hold your service members to the standard you set?<br>
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MSgt William Morris
As a retired Master Sergeant with a Master's Degree, I must say I regret not having taken the Officer route now that I'm getting about a third of the amount of retirement pay I could be getting. If you think you are going to make it a career, the officer route is the way to go.
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CMSgt Warren Weld
As a retired Finance Chief I think about the difference in retirement pay once a month -- but I remember the camaraderie with my troops almost daily. Cheif Evans is absolutely spot on - Officer/Enlisted camaraderie is not the same but the oppertunities to make a difference exist regardless of your pay grade. You sound like you have the right motivation and are making the right career choice. I love the Army Slogan "Be all you can be" -- I'm sure your mom is as proud of you as I am of my Squid Daughter.
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Capt Christian D. Orr
From having served on both the enlisted (mind you, a measly 2 years as an A1C) and officer side of the fence, I wholeheartedly concur with Joseph's post.
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Capt Dale Cleaveland
Being a "retread" myself, I went from being an E6 to retiring as a captain. One of my biggest motivations for making the jump was looking at the comparative retirements. I agree with the chief - I was definitely more "hands on" when I was enlisted, but I think I was a pretty good role model on both sides of the fence. You sound like you have the heart of a leader, already. The important thing is to take advantage of any opportunities that may be afforded to you.
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I talked to several senior officers about whether or not I should apply for OTS and get a commission. When they asked me why I wanted to do it, my biggest reason was that I wanted to make sure that my airmen were being taken care of. I feel that you have to have been there to know what they are going thru. They all told me that if I wanted to make sure that my airmen were taken care of, being an officer was not the way to go. They said that as an officer you have very little interaction with the airmen and it is mostly left up to the Senior Enlisted and the 1st Sergeant to take care of. I decided to apply for a commission anyways and after 14 years as an enlisted airmen I received my commission. After receiving my commission I have personally not seen the point of view that they gave me. I am a very interactive person and am involved with my airmen and have been able to help them when they were unable to get things done, especially when dealing with the assignments folks. As a brand new lieutenant I could call and talk to AFPC regarding my airmen as well as my career, but as a TSgt with 14 years they would not even talk to me, that is something that I just don't understand. I would say that receiving a commission or becoming a First Sergeant are both very rewarding career paths, except that the commission route pays A LOT better.
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MSgt (Join to see)
That is some awesome insight, Captain Beasley. I like your vantage point on making sure your Airmen are taken care of. However, I'm not in this for the money. I really think I would just enjoy the job.
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Maj Walter Kilar
As an officer, your level of meaningful interaction with enlisted depends on the job. If you plan on commissioning into a technical field where officers outnumber enlisted, you can find interaction with enlisted only on rare occasions. On the other hand, pretty much every First Sergeant has a duty to interact withwith and mentor enlisted, regardless of the enlisted to officer ratio. As an officer I have been in units where there are exactly four enlisted to 100+ officers, ten officers to 50 enlisted, and the only officer amidst 20 enlisted.
You cannot go wrong with either route, but if you want to guarantee that your role will be as a mentor for many Airmen, First Sergeant is the way to go.
You cannot go wrong with either route, but if you want to guarantee that your role will be as a mentor for many Airmen, First Sergeant is the way to go.
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Having spent five and half years as a first sergeant, I had the same opportunity to continue from the First Sergeant ranks to the commissioned officer path. I chose the enlisted path and found (in my case) it was the most rewarding and allowed me to have the greatest influence on enlisted and officers. As a First Sergeant I held the ranks of MSgt and SMSgt and advised both senior NCOs, Junior and Senior Officers (to include my squadron commander). In that role I had the best opportunity to support the enlisted troops and also help guide them in either path they chose (continuing enlisted or pursuing the officer path). I completed my career as a CMSgt and look at my years as a First Sergeant as the most rewarding. I commend you selecting either path. You will find arguments on both sides, but for me, if I had it to do all over again, I'd choose First Sergeant again.
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A1C Murray, you are in a unique position right now in this day and age to garner the opinions of and listen to the banter of many who are older and in theory wiser. I would love to have been able to dialog with folks like this when I was young and impressionable. Rally Point is going to be great for helping with that.
Right now, you need to focus on your career, get better at your job, start making forward progress. Work on your PME and keep your eyes on people who YOU deem to be successful and emulate their behavior and pay attention to their leadership styles.
The single best piece of advice that I can give you is to finish your education while you are young. It really is difficult once you settle down. When you have finished your education, then you will have the options of choosing your career path be it officer or whatever you like.
Right now, you need to focus on your career, get better at your job, start making forward progress. Work on your PME and keep your eyes on people who YOU deem to be successful and emulate their behavior and pay attention to their leadership styles.
The single best piece of advice that I can give you is to finish your education while you are young. It really is difficult once you settle down. When you have finished your education, then you will have the options of choosing your career path be it officer or whatever you like.
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
Happy 4th 1stSgt. Excellent - exactly what I mean NCOs take on the nurturing and guidance of SMs.
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As a senior NCO you will have more opportunity to directly influence the success and manage the failures of your people. As an officer, you will have more opportunity to indirectly influence those things (through your SNCOs). I was a MSgt and am now an LT. For me, as a SNCO, I became frustrated with my inability to obtain the resources required to provide the training and experience I knew my guys needed.....now that I am commissioned, there are still resource issues....but I have the means to directly affect them.
I equate it to being a doctor or being a nurse (from the perspective of the actions carried out while conducting normal business). If you want to care for people directly, being a doctor may not be the thing for you because you will, mostly, see your patients for a few minutes here and there so you can issue orders for care that the nurses will execute.
If you are a nurse, you don't have the authority to prescribe the drugs to relieve your patient's pain.....but you can attempt to influence the doctor's decisions by advocating for your patients.
When the doctor prescribes the pain medication, the nurse is the one who experiences the direct feedback from the patient and benefits from seeing their condition improve.
It is all about perspective. Both are equally important.
I equate it to being a doctor or being a nurse (from the perspective of the actions carried out while conducting normal business). If you want to care for people directly, being a doctor may not be the thing for you because you will, mostly, see your patients for a few minutes here and there so you can issue orders for care that the nurses will execute.
If you are a nurse, you don't have the authority to prescribe the drugs to relieve your patient's pain.....but you can attempt to influence the doctor's decisions by advocating for your patients.
When the doctor prescribes the pain medication, the nurse is the one who experiences the direct feedback from the patient and benefits from seeing their condition improve.
It is all about perspective. Both are equally important.
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I probably can answer this better than most......I've done both.....I didn't get commissioned until the 20 year prior enlisted mark. Very Rare!! I served a full career in both the Marine Corps and Air National Guard before getting commissioned and starting all over again as a Lieutenant. Remember the 1st Shirt is you are the commanders advocate for enlisted affairs, but sometimes even get actively involved with officer issues as well. You will be actively involved with Personnel issues both on a personal level as well as on a professional level. You might even bump heads with the commander a few times, but always remaining professional and respectful. I will say it is apples and oranges between being an officer and 1st Shirt. 1st Shirt has the responsibility of an entire organization, where most officer's other than the CO and XO have their sections and usually have an assigned NCOIC to take care of matters. Officers have planning and section responsibility more than dealing with personnel issues, but I'm not going to say they don't get involved because they do. All leaders do one way or the other. You really can't go wrong either way. But, I will say.....becoming a Mustang is pretty cool. I don't think they will every allow any more 20 year prior enlisted folks to get commissioned anymore. I did it as a Health Services Administrator and I heard they were going to make a 12 year cut off. I did this in the Air Force Reserves. Being prior enlisted gives you a very good prospective of how the other half works and plays.
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Maj (Join to see)
I made my jump at 14 years just two years ago. I was the second highest TIS person in my OTS class. You are the first I have heard of moving over after the 16 year mark. That must have been tough. Good on you.
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MSgt (Join to see)
Both of you must have so much wealth and knowledge to share with your coworkers and subordinates! Such a valuable resource to have had all of those experiences.
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Capt David Malin, CEM
In the reserves we had one guy that I knew who had 22 years. We all are direct commission. The day I swore the oath was they day I was a Second LT. If I had a Masters Degree, I would have skipped that and started as a 1st Lt. I actually went to RCOT 2 years after being commissioned. MSC Officers are tied in with the Medical Community, same as the Chaplains, and the Lawyers. The same rules don't apply for these folks. You have Surgeons that will come into the military with no prior service as an Lt Col. Hell, in my last squadron we had 4 colonels within our squadron. Some of them had very little military background. But, how else do you expect to recruit a Cardiologist to serve in the military? They won't come in as an 03 or 04 pay. Don't feel to bad, in my RCOT class, which by the way is only 14 days long....we had the Governor of South Carolina at the time. Mark Sanford, who is now a Congressman again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Sanford
14 years is just breaking in....lol I only did another 7 years as an officer and ultimately went NARS for another 5 years and then was forced to either go back in or put my paper work in and retire. I decided it was time to retire. Great career, the only thing I would do different is in high school apply myself better to studies and get into one of the service academies. How we all learn from our mistakes...you only get one shot at life!!! I have 3 more years and that will wrap up a 30 year full time career with the City of Los Angeles. It was great to hold down two careers at the same time! Where else can you do that? My active duty time was right out of high school into the Marines after that the active duty was deployments, training and annual tours....all while working for the City of LA.
For the record....all funds earned from the military went to investment accounts....I'm retiring at the age of 55. No more work, no more uniforms, I won't even wear a suit.....not even to my own funeral. You only get to do that by proper planning and starting at a young age. That part I did better than most....that work in the government industry. AAPL, NFLX, AMZN If you don't know what I just wrote......this is how to start http://www.fool.com
14 years is just breaking in....lol I only did another 7 years as an officer and ultimately went NARS for another 5 years and then was forced to either go back in or put my paper work in and retire. I decided it was time to retire. Great career, the only thing I would do different is in high school apply myself better to studies and get into one of the service academies. How we all learn from our mistakes...you only get one shot at life!!! I have 3 more years and that will wrap up a 30 year full time career with the City of Los Angeles. It was great to hold down two careers at the same time! Where else can you do that? My active duty time was right out of high school into the Marines after that the active duty was deployments, training and annual tours....all while working for the City of LA.
For the record....all funds earned from the military went to investment accounts....I'm retiring at the age of 55. No more work, no more uniforms, I won't even wear a suit.....not even to my own funeral. You only get to do that by proper planning and starting at a young age. That part I did better than most....that work in the government industry. AAPL, NFLX, AMZN If you don't know what I just wrote......this is how to start http://www.fool.com
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A1C Murray,
My only real advice here - that doesn't duplicate what others have posted too much - is to focus on the two distinct CAREER paths.
1SG is a duty position that you will hold, if at all, from 2 years to an outside maximum - if the stars align just right - of 6 years. In a 20 year career, that would amount to between 10% and a little over 25%. In a 30 year career, it would be a smaller percentage.
That doesn't mean don't do it, it just means look at the whole package - which includes the POSSIBILITY of NO time as a 1SG. Even if you are a stellar Airman.
The question I would ask is do I want to follow an NCO- SR NCO career path, where I will have more direct interaction/impact with individual Airmen? Or do I want to follow a commissioned path where I MAY have long-term organizational impact, which will more indirect and harder to see in the short term? There is also a third option - NCO - SR NOC - Commission.
My only real advice here - that doesn't duplicate what others have posted too much - is to focus on the two distinct CAREER paths.
1SG is a duty position that you will hold, if at all, from 2 years to an outside maximum - if the stars align just right - of 6 years. In a 20 year career, that would amount to between 10% and a little over 25%. In a 30 year career, it would be a smaller percentage.
That doesn't mean don't do it, it just means look at the whole package - which includes the POSSIBILITY of NO time as a 1SG. Even if you are a stellar Airman.
The question I would ask is do I want to follow an NCO- SR NCO career path, where I will have more direct interaction/impact with individual Airmen? Or do I want to follow a commissioned path where I MAY have long-term organizational impact, which will more indirect and harder to see in the short term? There is also a third option - NCO - SR NOC - Commission.
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Sadly - and I always hate saying this - from a practical side you have to consider pay. There is a very large and unfortunate pay gap between officer and enlisted.
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A1C Emily M. Have a sit down and talk, really talk, with people you respect in both career paths. Find out how they feel about options and lives in and out of military, their goals and aspirations, help they received, obstacles they have overcome, and satisfaction with the choices they have made. Take your time / get to know them. Warmest Regards, Sandy
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A good officer can affect more change overall, a good first sergeant can affect individuals on a more personal basis.
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