What are the repercussions of recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital?

LTC Jason Mackay SP5 Larry Morris Recognition of the capital as Jerusalem firmly sides with Israel and may slam the door on any religion they don't like.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/12064754/Jewish-extremist-leader-says-Christmas-has-no-place-in-the-Holy-Land.html
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20160924-extremist-jewish-settlers-attack-christians-in-jerusalem/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/12104389/Death-to-heathen-Christians-scrawled-on-walls-of-Jerusalems-Dormition-Abbey.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11786802/Burning-of-Christian-churches-in-Israel-justified-far-Right-Jewish-leader-says.html

There can be no peace, never has been never will be. It’s a pipe dream

There will be no peace in the Middle East. Peace was always nothing but a pipe dream. As such we did not slam the door against the Arab world. They already called us the Big Satan. Israel is only the Little Satan. Yes, the muslims hate Israel, but they hate America more.

CPO (Join to see) - The key to your posting is that it is a Jewish EXTREMIST. When you go to Israel you will find that all religious sites are protected by the government of Israel. This is for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Bahai, Druze or any other religious group. However, when you go to sites governed by the Palestinian Authority not only will you find it unsafe to visit those sites, they are often vandalized.

CPO (Join to see) - We may not agree, but I would say the odds are better for us than the Israelis and Palestinians.
For what it is worth, the 1967 war started for the same reason the Suez war broke out - the Egyptians closed the strait entering the Red Sea to Israeli shipping to the port of Eliat. The Israelis launched a preemptive strike on the Egyptian Air Force and seized the Sinai peninsula, true, but the Jordanians and Syrians launched their portion of the six-day war at Egypt's behest without any direct provocation from Israel. As a result, Jordan lost the West Bank (Palestinian land which they were occupying), Syria lost the Golan Heights, and Egypt lost the Gaza Strip (Palestinian land that they were occupying) and the Sinai.
When I say an "all out attack from all sides", I was referring to 1948 specifically, but I could also say the same of the Yom Kippur War in 1973.

I am pretty well-read on these conflicts, not just a shill for Israel.

1SG (Join to see) - We are doing much better than the Palestinians and Israelis. However I disagree (surprise!) with you on the next point. Israel invaded Egypt in Oct 1956 at the behest of Britain and France. Britain was pissed off that Egypt took the Suez out of British control in Jul 1956 and they wanted it back.

The 1936 Anglo-Egyptian Treaty proclaimed Egypt to be an independent sovereign state, but allowed for British troops to continue to be stationed in the Suez Canal zone until 1956. Egypt's Wafd government unilaterally abrogated in 1951. Egypt's Nasser government got UK to agreed to withdraw its troops in the 1954 Anglo–Egyptian Agreement. When Britain and U.S. withdrew funding for the Aswan Dam, Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal in Jul 1956, technically in violation of the 1954 agreement. Britain led the effort behind the scenes colluding with Israel and France to retake control of the Suez Canal and to remove Nasser from power. President Eisenhower was incensed. International pressure, together with the threat of Soviet intervention, forced Britain, France and Israel to withdraw from Egypt.

The results of the 1967 war were determined once the Egyptian air force was destroyed, but you are forgetting the Egyptian-Jordanian Mutual Defense Treaty. Israel's attack on Egypt was a direct provocation in the same way an attack on NATO would provoke us. Jordan suffered the worse in that war. About 70% of Jordan’s agricultural land, producing up to 65% of its fruits and vegetables, was located in the West Bank. Half of Jordan’s industrial establishments were in the West Bank, while the loss of Jerusalem and other religious sites devastated the tourism industry. Altogether, territory lost to Israel had accounted for about 38% of Jordan’s gross national product prior to June 1967.

I find it strange how some people cannot understand why Arab nations are upset with the U.S. IMHO, had Nixon/Kissinger not ordered Operation Nickel Grass for the U.S. to provide Israel endless emergency resupply and reequip, it is unlikely Israel would have been able to successful counterattack in 1973. Israel also violated the cease fire and continued their invasion and encirclement of Egyptian forces under a white flag. However, was 1973 truly an Arab-Israeli war or just another proxy war between the U.S. and USSR? Especially given the Soviet threat of intervention and out DEFCON III alert.

It seems like some posts have changed during the course of our debate over the past week?

CPO D C: When I became a Freemason many, many moons ago, I did need to be invited. The advance of Time has changed things. Years ago, a late Pope decreed that Catholics can join, and no one needs to be asked to join. Today, a man, aged 18 and older, fills out a petition and, if all is well, he can join his local Masonic Lodge. I know a number of Jewish Brothers, including one, now deceased, who was one of the finest men I've ever had the honour of knowing. My life has been diminished by his physical absence.

I don’t think it was a distraction, the President never backed off his support of Moore. How can you have peace when most Arab nations do not recognize Israel anyway. There has been trouble there since Israel was re-established. Moving the Capital to Jerusalem will not significantly change the views towards the U.S. There is always a reason to protest. Hezbollah is an Irainian backed terrorist organization, so what are the real prospects for peace.

PO3 Donald Murphy - "The 1967 six day war was a result of Egypt and her allies cutting off Israel's water supply. That's a strategic move. That's the same as a "nuke" from a "lets go to war" perspective. You can't live without water, right?"

In 1919, the Zionist delegation at the Paris Peace Conference said the Golan Heights, Jordan valley, what is now the West Bank, as well as Lebanon's river Litani were "essential for the necessary economic foundation of the country."

In the early 1960s, Israel was building a canal system to take water from the Sea of Galilee that would enable it to support far more settlers throughout Isreal. The Arab League (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Palestine) decided in 1964 that "the diversion of the Jordan waters by (Israel) multiplies the dangers to Arab existence" and hoped to prevent a massive influx of more Jewish immigrants. The Jordan River Headwater Diversion Plan was approved by the Arab League in 1964. Marginally feasible, the technically difficult and extremely expensive project began work in 1965. If successful it could have reduced Israel's overall water supply by about 11%, but in April 1967 Israel exploited a border incident as pretext to bomb the diversion project deep in Syrian territory; effectively halting the diversion effort.

Since 1962, nearly half of the Arab League were at war against each other in Yemen. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and the UK supported the royalists. Egypt supported the republicans. Jordan dropped out in 1963, but in 1967 Egypt and Saudi Arabia were still fighting each other. In fact, Egyptian historians refer to the Yemen civil war as Egypt's Vietnam.

So the Arab League had been fighting each other for years. Israel's water supply was never cut off. The threat to Israel's water supply and continued immigration was eliminated in April 1967. But in June 1967, Israel invaded Egypt then Jordan and the West Bank capturing some of the same territory the Zionists said they wanted in 1919.

Yes, water is said to be one of the factors for Israel attacking her neighbors in June 1967 but it was hardly *the* reason.

CPO (Join to see) - Israel covered all of its bases politically. It made entreaties to the UN, it notified legal/civil authorities, etc. Now, its possible that they were ruses, but the goal was to "get on record" Israel's complaints. Note that the UN actually voted on the item twice. So despite the information you point out, everyone for and against Israel was aware that Israel had a water problem "on record." So Israel was able to justify its urgency whether the urgency was false flag or not.

Irrespective, my literary goal in mentioning it was to show that Israel does not need us to protect itself.

PO3 Donald Murphy - You're right. The U.S. should never have executed Operation Nickel Grass to save Israel in 1973.

False flags are not justification. They are lies that do not stand the test of time. Additionally, if the threat to their water was resolved in April, it cannot be used to justify an attack in June. The water issue didn't threaten their existence, it only threatened their continued expansion.

CPO (Join to see) - Again - not doubting your take on it. But the paper trail speaks different. The paper trail says that their water was endangered. The fact that it physically may or may not have been is a battle between your authors and mine*. Remember that the USA was not Israel's bestest bud in June of 1967. UN voting backs that up as well as ambivalence of the USA towards Israel. This is why you'll get USS Liberty mere hours later... At the time, we could have used their false flag as reason to not further relations with Israel. Oh but wait...Soviets wanted to build a sub base in Haifa. "Like I said, we've A L W A Y S been Israel's friend..." Yeah right...

Yom Kippur is Israel down to its last squadron and all "in the know" knew which squadron that was. Israel alerted its new bested bud America, that an invisible line had been drawn in the sand and should that line get crossed, there will be a glass shower in Damascus, Cairo and Riyahd. In the time it took JCOS to read the "in the clear" message which the Soviet contingent also conveniently got, the situation turned in Israel's favor. Moscow received notification that the arab goal was not "holocaust 2.0" but merely to teach Israel a lesson. They did not get to Damascus in time to tell the Syrians to pull the plug on the operation or face fallout (figuratively and physically...). All figured that since IDF had turned the tide that all would stop (as everyone knew by the communique that Israel didn't have the toys to continue a war). Israel then headed towards Damascus, started its prisoner killing and took the Golan in full. Moscow got a hold of Mossad and advised them against going any further. Thats when the war stopped.

Spy Catcher - Peter Wright
Six Days In June - Eric Hammell
Shield Of The Republic: The United States Navy - Michael Isenberg
For Heaven's Sake: Squadron 201 And The Yom Kippur War - Aviram Barkai

Combined, I've spent several weeks in Israel, myself. You are very correct in your assessment of the Jewish people. However, I also spent considerable time with a significant number of Arabs with whom I had wonderful and memorable visits. There are good people everywhere, if we but look and listen. Es Selam Alekum and Shalom.

CPO (Join to see) - You are a bit of a mystery yourself, CPO. Got some shadow warrior in you? My comments are just that, comments. My opinion based on what I saw and read and heard about Las Vegas. I also am privy to a bit of other information and other opinions that lead me to the conclusions I made. To say eye-witness accounts are some of the most unreliable is a farce. If you discount the video, audio and personal accounts you are left with absolutely nothing except the official record. Look at the timing of the event. In the midst of Saudi unrest. Saudi princes are notorious for going out in public in disguise. The assassins, perhaps as many as 20 of them, were surprised to find that the prince was not in the Four Seasons. The weapons were part of a gun deal gone bad, and the firing on the crowd was a distraction from their escape. If you listened to the scanner recordings there were gun battles throughout the strip between Saudi body guards and assassins. Many concert goers were caught in the crossfire. Will we ever get forensic reports on angles of shots, locations and positions of all the dead and wounded? Never. The type and severity of the wounds? Never. You want to believe what you want to believe, and so do I. Until I am proven wrong, you are certainly entitled to yours.

SP5 Larry Morris - T.E. "Lawrence of Arabia" Lawrence. https://www.britannica.com/biography/T-E-Lawrence “Do not try to do too much with your own hands. Better the Arabs do it tolerably than that you do it perfectly. It is their war, and you are to help them, not to win it for them. Actually, also, under the very odd conditions of Arabia, your practical work will not be as good as, perhaps, you think it is.”
― T.E. Lawrence
“Learn all you can.... Get to know their families, clans and tribes, friends and enemies, wells, hills and roads. Do all this by listening and by indirect inquiry. ... Get to speak their dialect ... not yours. Until you can understand their allusions, avoid getting deep into conversation or you will drop bricks. ~ T.E. Lawrence, from "The Arab Bulletin," 20 August 1917”
― T.E. Lawrence

MAJ Montgomery Granger - Do you at least admit your error about the White House nativity scene and "Merry Christmas" comment?

Great point about the term "Palestine" being a Roman term. Just to add a bit more to this for those who are interested. The Romans called the area Palestine after the Jewish-Roman Wars of 66-136AD. After defeating the Jews and destroying their temple the Romans named the area after the Jews traditional enemy, the Philistines. More may be read on this subject in "The Wars of the Jews" by Josephus a Roman, Jewish, historian of the day who was against Jewish independence from Rome.

Furthermore, not only are modern day "Palestinians" genetically the same as other Arabs, they themselves will tell you that they are not dependents of the Philistines. Yet at the same time they will claim Palestine as theirs going back to the original usage of the name by the Romans. Lastly, up until 50 years ago if you called someone a Palestinian you were referring to a Jew who lived in the land called Palestine. Arabs never adopted the title of Palestinian until after the creation of Israel.

PO3 Donald Murphy - Modern day Israel is the result of the Zionist movement gaining strength and a popular foothold from 1890 forward. Zionists decided to ignore the need for a Messiah to redeem the Jewish people and gather the exiled to the land of Israel. They began their illegal immigration into the area early in the 20th Century. Britain captured Palestine from the Ottoman Empire during WWI with the help of Arab rebels that were promised an independent nation. Following years of British colonial rule, decades of illegal Jewish immigration to Palestine peaking in 1935, broken promises from WWI, and a form of gentrification causing Arabs to lose their land to Jews since the 1920s, Palestinian anti-British and anti-Zionist militant organizations (including Arab Christians) revolted around 1936-1939 but ended up getting slaughtered. The Haganah had fought for the British to crush the Arab revolt, but following the revolt the British wanted to severely restrict future Jewish immigration because of all the trouble it was causing. This infuriated the Zionists and ended the cooperation. After a hiatus during most of WWII, Zionist militants started their armed revolt in early 1944. Jew on British, Jew on Jew, and Jew on Arab violence played out through 1947 before the civil war between Jews and Arabs began in earnest. Your claims about the British dividing their arms for both sides to use is false. At least as early as 1946 Zionists had been engaged in illegal arms sales and smuggling surplus war items from the surrounding territory and Europe with the help of American aviators and ships said to contain "agricultural equipment". French socialist extremists also played a big part in providing arms and equipment to socialist Zionists in Palestine.

As King Abdulaziz said in 1945: "Mr. President, what Hitler did to the Jews was a terrible thing. It really was the worst thing that man can do to man." But he said, "I don't understand why you're talking about taking land away from us, the Arabs, and giving it to the Jews. We didn't do anything to the Jews. If you want to do something for the Jews, why don't you give them the best part of Germany?"

Extremist Jews of today act as poorly and employ some of the same tactics as the early Nazis did. How happy are all the celebrating Evangelicals going to be when they realize they are not welcome in Jerusalem either.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/vatican-anti-christian-violence-crosses-red-line-in-israel/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/12104389/Death-to-heathen-Christians-scrawled-on-walls-of-Jerusalems-Dormition-Abbey.html

CPO (Join to see) - Some great history again, completely ignoring voting records. The UN was given The British Palestinian Mandate by...drum roll...the British. Zionist influence, organizations, smuggling and violence are correct historically, as you point out. The British left the weapons where they were. You may research the weapon placement yourself. Hard to move the Egyptian port inland to the Israeli tank area and vice versa. I'd recommend you read a little more than "articles." Hence, the bibliography I gave you. While you are correct that Zionist "influence" was sort of large, money will be your main arbiter. Britain won't keep paying for it and lets it go. Britain tells the USA its there, and the USA pushes it on the UN.

You still haven't answered the key question of why the resettlement? Why send French, Dutch, German and Polish Jews to the desert instead of just telling France, Holland, Germany and Poland to take them? You don't answer that question. You'd like to, but are afraid that the answer will throw off your argument. Also note that the planes sold by the USA had to be "broken" prior to delivery. We're learning to become two faced at this time (playing both sides of the fence) and can't be seen arming someone who threatens (upsets) a potential oil seller. Again...less articles, more books.

You can add James Bradley's "Imperial Cruise" to your list I gave you as well.

It may not help the problems in the area, but it certainly will not hurt the situation either.

CPO (Join to see) - 1a. I hate to correct here but Jerusalem is not the capital of the three "Abrahamic Religions." Namely because it is not the capital of the islamic faith. Mecca is the capital of the islamic faith. Jerusalem is listed as their third capital meaning the only reason it is important to the muslims is because it is important to the Jews and Christians. This is a theme you may trace throughout islam where you will see muslims will turn religious centers of other faiths like Judaism and Christianity into mosques as a sign of having conquered that land. 1.b Israel does exist. Yes, there are some people like the muslims, antisemites, neo-nazis, and a very small sect of ultra orthodox Jews in New York city who do not think Israel SHOULD exist, but reality tells us that it DOES exist.

2. To the best of my knowledge the United States has her embassy placed in the capital city of every nation we recognize as a nation, save for Israel until President Trump. You may talk about Burma all you wish but as you pointed out, we do not recognize that Myanmar exists. We do however recognize that Israel exists. As such our embassy should be in Israel's capital city.

3. Our situation in the Middle East is that of "The Great Satan." Israel is only "The Little Satan." As far as Israel being founded by extremist, a little research will review that in 1876 when Samuel Clemons toured the area he found that they only civilization in the area is where the Jews were working the land. He described the Arabs as lazy, unwilling to create a better lifestyle or civilization for themselves, and inclined to violence. Fast forward the Belford Declaration of 1917 where Great Britain promised to create a Jewish State. This declaration came when Great Britain seized the land from the Ottoman Empire who controlled modern Israel and the rest of the Middle East for centuries. After courting the Arabs by T.E. Lawrence, aka Lawrence of Arabia, over half of the land promised to the Jewish people was instead given to the Arabs to create a nation called Trans-Jordan, now Jordan. After wearied by WW2, GB turned their back on imperialism and among other nations they created such as Pakistan and India, they created Israel in 1948. Unlike the other nations they created, the English forbad the sale of weapons to the Jewish people while selling or giving away weapons to the Arab people. On the night they left what was to become Israel, the British army turned their key military bases over to the Arabs and not the Jews. They joked saying that in 48 hours the new Jewish state would no longer exist. Israel was surrounded by Arab nations who swore they would kill every Jew in the land and as soon as the Brittish left five nations, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon invaded Israel. That is how Israel was born.

The Palestinian are the most nasty people over there and the Jews right behind them never will be a good way out to much hate

SP5 Larry Morris - People everywhere are far more alike than they are different, and the vast majority of people in any nation want little more than to raise their families in relative freedom, peace and prosperity. Northern Ireland is the perfect example of what peace can be found if both sides are willing to negotiate reasonably.

SSG Edward Tilton - They pay for it with their taxes. We can't have that because we won't make that move.

PO3 Donald Murphy - No, they lowered taxes to ensure we don't

That's fine, I recognize Mexico as part of America. We give them US Taxpayer aid, allow illegal's to come to America and ship American dollars back to Mexico, and then we buy good from Mexico. Since Mexico would have no economy without the United States it is far past time we annex Mexico.

During WWI and WWII our government asked Mexico to send laborers to our fields, so our boys could go fight the wars in Europe. They did and we eventually sent Mexico money that was to be distributed to those braceros, but as usual graft and corruption, those who's sweat, blood and tears irrigated our land got Zero.I still worked side by side with the Braceros here in California. Oh and some paid taxes , some had their wages shortchanged, some went back at the end of the harvest. And come back the next season. Let them who are without fault cast the first stone.

I totally agree. I could never understand the logic to have it at Tel Aviv, other than that's where the only civilian airport exists. Two beautiful cities, though. Spent much time in both.

SCPO (Join to see) - It was at Tel Aviv as the initial creation of Israel did not have Jerusalem anywhere in its borders. Israel captured Jerusalem after the six day war in 1967.

Yup!!!