Posted on Sep 18, 2015
SPC Andrew Griffin
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The Incarceration Rate in this Country is ALARMING! African Americans and Latinos are SUPPOSE to make up a Small Percentage in the Populace! However, they Occupy most of the Jails and Prison! What can be done to Address this Issue?
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Responses: 46
SMSgt Tony Barnes
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It starts in the home. It's not always unfair arrest practices.
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SPC Andrew Griffin
SPC Andrew Griffin
10 y
SMSgt Tony Barnes - Broken homes and Broken Spirits!
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LCDR Deputy Department Head
LCDR (Join to see)
10 y
This is true. It's one of those cycles though. How can you convince a group of people to respect the law if they feel they are targeted by it? It's a very hard thing to do.
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SMSgt Tony Barnes
SMSgt Tony Barnes
10 y
LCDR (Join to see) - Very good point sir
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CPT Corrections Officer
CPT (Join to see)
10 y
I have inmates on a regular basis admit they plan on turning the same tricks on the street that got them incarcerated once they are released. Unfortunately it's a fast way of life and it's what they know. GED classes and other vocational and drug programs only go so far if someone has drive to better themselves. If not they come right back on a violation 6 months later. It's certainly a cycle and it starts from adolescence and teen years for many of these inmates. It's not a matter of just being a minority or not. There are plenty of white people in prison as well. I work with minorities, they obviously made the right choices to dictate if they go home at the end of the shift or lock in.
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
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I don't care if you are a minority or not, how about everyone obey the law and have some respect for authority - that would help a LOT! And it starts with getting MARRIED before you have kids, and then having a MOM & DAD raise their children TOGETHER. I can just about guarantee that the number of "incarcerated minorities" that have not broken the law and have both parents in the home is less than 1%. I don't think the solution is to stop incarcerating them as Barry seems to be suggesting!
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CDR Terry Boles
CDR Terry Boles
10 y
CMSgt Mark Schubert
Agreed! Family values, common sense dignity, stop the street crud crapola, be respectful to one another, parents BE parents not friends to your child, stop blaming someone else for your failures, be a proud American first and foremost before self-segregating oneself into this or that minority/majority, and I could go and on about this PC society that lends itself to the outcomes we experience today.

Sad world we live in when one fails to recognize it is OK to better oneself, and be proud of being an American first and foremost.
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LTC Henry Barber
LTC Henry Barber
10 y
Remember the mother in Baltimore. Its about how you parent your children. You have to care, love, and be a parent.
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SPC Andrew Griffin
SPC Andrew Griffin
10 y
This is EXACTLY what I was Looking for!
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SSG Warren Swan
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Well what answer are you looking for? This is a loaded question with answers that will piss someone off. Me personally on this; you have a for profit prison system (not everywhere) that is set up to want offenders in there. With that, they don't have to work too hard on having their beds filled regardless of skin color. The people in this situation that "pay" for it are the CO's that have to work with extremely bad pay and benefits under tremendous mental and sometimes physical stress. The others are the prisoners themselves. Some prisons aren't rehab facilities and with that in mind, when they do get released, they might as well do an about face and reserve their bed on the spot. They will return. Maybe comparing the return rates of rehab vs. non rehab prisons could give a better picture? Now on the law side, do you honestly want to talk about the injustice that is on the books against minorities in general or do you want to look at the causes of crimes, or do you want to look at the perpetrators and tell them honestly you fucked up and your ass needs to pay? No one goes to jail/prison/ or whatever for doing a crime. They go for getting caught. Now the death penalty is not a deterrent to crime by any skin color. Tighten up weapons laws....nope those haven't worked. They damn sure penalize the legal folks tho! Ok, lets reach out to the communities and do outreach programs, clean up the ghettos, give them better schooling facilities, and then what? I lived in Mayfair Mansions in DC off Minnesota Ave (or gardens depending on time there) and this was done. I also lived on 37th st SE DC. BOTH were the projects. BOTH were ghettos. BOTH were rebuilt with taxpayers money, new schools built or renovated, and you had the civic leaders rolling around talking about a "new age". Ok I lived in both, and I didn't see shit. Sure they painted, plastered, rebuilt, repaved, and made old shit look new. But in the end it STILL was the same OLD SHIT! Why because the attitudes of the people living there hadn't changed. For every one child that had a family working to get out of there (thank God my parents were one of those hard workers), you had ten more chilling asking for more while giving less. You want to talk about recidivism rates talk about changing the mindset. Changing the value system that places a set of Jordans over an education. I remember when they were killing kids off Alabama Ave near Bolling AFB over Starter jackets. I'm very salty to this because it brings up memories some good, but many no so. I knew many VERY intelligent black men and women never make it because of a fucked up mindset. They weren't stupid in the books, they were extremely smart. They were dumber than a box of rocks in what they considered success, and for some that "success" is a long bid. Others is a permanent bid pushing daisies when they could've been enjoying grandkids. I apologize sincerely for my language in my post and if it did offend ANYONE, I ask the admins to take it down immediately. It's just how I feel after being part of this situation and able to see it first hand, not on the news, or in some magazine, but with my own eyes as a child and a man. Looking at families torn apart that knew each other as friends one day and over some BS someone is hurt or dead. Want to worry about something? Worry about changing the mindset. Worry about bringing back personal value of life. Worry about wanting to be a part of something that strengthens you and makes you an example to your peers. I did that when I joined the Army. It hurt to leave them, and when I came home, I knew I'd never be able to hang with them like we used to. I had grown up. They hadn't. Worry about making change, not money change, but change that benefits all, not whites, blacks, Hispanics, Asians or whatever, but everyone.
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SSG Warren Swan
SSG Warren Swan
10 y
SPC Andrew Griffin please don't take this as an assault on you or your post. You just made one that hit home directly for me, and I'm sure many others who may or may not speak the same way I did in regards to it. From Ghetto to trailer park, crime is crime, and we need to realize we are one country going forward, not a splintered set of individuals with no direction that doesn't involve money or a cheapened temporary reward. Brother bring em on. You got me with this one. SSG Thomas Livingston and MSgt Jack DeYoung. I was out of line in my language. But it was honest and from the heart, but that doesn't mean that it was right to others. Thanks for your words and if it comes down, folks see that along with being servicemembers we're also human.
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SCPO Joshua I
SCPO Joshua I
10 y
I think you mostly nailed it here.
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SPC Andrew Griffin
SPC Andrew Griffin
10 y
BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the POST FO THE YEAR!!!!!!! This is Everything and More I was looking for! I Grew up in as well! You hit Everything that can be done to Influence Change! Take this Down for what? We all EMBRACE it! Thank you for being such a Blessing to this Post! Love you Brother!
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SSG Warren Swan
SSG Warren Swan
10 y
SPC Andrew Griffin - Keep em coming. When we cannot have productive debates on here is when we need a check up from the neck up. Thanks again and I meant everything I said to you. Good Soldier, better man!
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What can be done to Address the Incarceration Rate amongst Minorities in this Country?
COL Jean (John) F. B.
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SPC Andrew Griffin - I believe the obvious answer, although not easily accomplished, is to reduce the number of crimes committed by African Americans and Latinos.

While I do not have my head buried in the sand (or elsewhere) and realize that there is evidence to show that minorities are incarcerated at a higher rate than Caucasians for similar offenses, that nowhere near explains the real issue. The real issue is the number of minorities committing offenses and, of those, the number who have multiple offenses already on their records (which many studies fail to factor into the equation). However, it is a fact that, if everyone was treated exactly the same, the minority offenders incarcerated would still be much, much higher than non-minority offenders, simply because they are committing the majority of the crimes.

Very simple -- don't do the crime and you won't do the time.
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SPC Andrew Griffin
SPC Andrew Griffin
10 y
I agree!
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SrA Daniel Hunter
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With respect SPC Andrew Griffin 2 of 3 African Americans and 5 of 6 Latinos never spend a day in prison/jail in their lives because they don't break the law. If you look at the proportion of these groups in prison compared to their general population numbers in Latino and African countries you will find a similar result. In the U.S. this is merely a political ploy to entice minority voters to vote Democrat. It is purported to show a social injustice. The real injustice is why so many minorities live lives that by necessity or social pressure put them in a condition where crime is acceptable, or even promoted. Why does a young African American on the South side of Chicago, or a Latino in East L.A. join a gang? Because that is what young men there do, their friends their neighbors. It perpetuates the myth that the system is their enemy and they fight that system by breaking the law. This feeds the myth by compounding the number of incarcerated.
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SPC Andrew Griffin
SPC Andrew Griffin
10 y
Excellent! Excellent! Excellent Post!
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Edited 10 y ago
I'm probably going to become very unpopular with what I am about to say. While I cannot speak for the rest of the nation, I can speak for my hometown of Omaha, NE. While I was living there, the majority of the crimes were being committed by minorities. I am certainly not saying that the white folks were not committing crimes, only that the majority were done by the minority. In areas that are predominately Black and/or Hispanic, majority of the crimes were committed by the people living there. That, unfortunately, is not racial profiling. That is statistics. Now, let us look at where I live now, which is Pocatello, ID. Predominately, the population is white. There is a fair number of black, latino, arab, pakistani, native, and some asian. But, looking at the crime reports posted in the papers, there is a decent amount of mix of people arrested for various things from DUI to drug possession. But, just a little over the majority of the crimes are again, done by the minorities. Again, statistics. But, let us not look at the race/crime ratio for a moment. Let's look at WHY the minority are committing the majority:

Choices. IMHO, choices are the basic common denominator as to why crimes are committed. No matter the region that one lives in, no matter what the skin color is of a person, there is always a choice to do right or wrong. Come from a broken home: One still has the choice. I came from a broken home. My mother was married and divorced multiple times. She was married to abusive and alcoholic men. Not the most conductive environment for a young boy. But I still chose not to do wrong. Did I have the opportunity to do wrong? Yes I did. Was school hard and difficult at times? Yes, but I still chose to stick to it and get my education. Did I live in violent, crime ridden neighborhoods? Yes, but I still chose not to go with the flow. Were there after school programs and YMCA's in my hometown? Yes. But I could not get to them due to Mom being single or married with only one car in the house and no other way to get there because they were too far to walk. But, I still found a way to keep myself out of trouble. Choices.

But where does the choices begin? At the home. Case in point, let us look at that young teen that was busted on live video participating in the riots and his mom came by and started whooping on him. Based on that, I fairly certain he had a good home life...Mom doing her best to teach her kid(s) right and wrong. BUT he still chose to participate. And he paid the piper to Mom. My mother gave me choices. I can go to school and get my education and do right, or I can not go to school and do wrong and get my 6 whipped by her. Did I have friends and family do drugs? Certainly, but I CHOSE not to do that dumb crap.

Yes, sometimes making those choices can be hard. Doing the right thing is not always the easiest thing. Everything that is good coming to you is earned by dedication and hard work and making the right choices.
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Maj William Gambrell
Maj William Gambrell
10 y
Concur, but you have one error...Muslim is not a race, it is a religion.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
MSG (Join to see)
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Maj William Gambrell - My bad. I thought I had properly proofread before posting. Missed that one. Thank you for the correction
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
MSG (Join to see)
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Maj William Gambrell - Corrections made
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SPC Andrew Griffin
SPC Andrew Griffin
10 y
Excellent Post! There is great!
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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First we must define Why people are in prison.

http://felonvoting.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004339

The linked site gives a "decent" look at look at some key categories, like Violent Crimes, Drug, Property, and Public-Order Crimes.

Now, this is where things get really tricky. I think most people would agree that violent crimes (Murder, Assault, Rape, etc) should result in prison time, but what about the other categories? Property Crimes would probably also fall in to that category "most" of that time (theft, arson, etc). But what about Drugs & Public Order crimes?

Are all of these worthy of "jail time" or could we find better ways of dealing with them?

Alright, once we get past Why people are in prison, then we need to look at the class of people (minority) in prison. This comes down to socio-economic factors. More crimes in urban areas, where there is a higher concentration of poor. That coincides with a higher concentration of minorities. Ouroboros effect (self-eating snake).
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SSgt Terry P.
SSgt Terry P.
10 y
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - "Keep in mind that many drug related criminals are users (possession), not dealers (distribution)."True,but a lot of violent crimes are perpetrated by DRUG USERS obtaining a means to support the habit.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
10 y
SSgt Terry P. I don't doubt that. But again, correlation v causation. We have to find the actual linkage.

Drawing an analogy. During the AWB violent crime went down. Therefore access to "assault weapons" leads to more violent crime? However upon the repeal, violent crime continued to go down, therefore the correlation was untrue.
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SPC Andrew Griffin
SPC Andrew Griffin
10 y
thank you for the Link! Awesome Post!
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
10 y
SFC James Sczymanski - Honolulu does have a pretty high Pop. Density at about 1.6k/sqmile. But look at Oakland at 5k/sqmile or LA at 7k or Detroit at 5.1k.

We're "not quite" at orders of magnitude (*10) higher between these Urban areas. "Maybe" the threshold for "people losing their damn minds" happens somewhere in the 2k-4k/sqmile range (theory) or maybe living on an island paradise mellows folks out.
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SPC Will Keller
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Bernie Sanders really isn't the best person to quote. However, the money spent on detention should be spent and doubles on prevention. IE Boys & Girls Club, however parents and guardians need to step up and help out if they can. Some people are destined to be habitual offenders. Why focus on just minorities?
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SPC Andrew Griffin
SPC Andrew Griffin
10 y
Great Post Bro!
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PO3 Steven Sherrill
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I am a firm believer that prisons should be reserved for criminals. I do not believe that the user or the seller of illicit drugs should fall into that category. We have laws limiting use of Tobacco and Alcohol. We also have laws that stipulate penalties for driving while impaired. These are mostly logical, enforceable laws. Why is the same logic not applied to the harder drugs?

I think that the real problem is numbers. There are more people in the United States than there are jobs. If the people in jail for drug crimes were not in jail, where would they be? They would be in the population seeking employment. Adding numbers to the population. If we did not have the need for as many Drug Enforcement officers, where would those officers be? In the population, seeking employment.

As for more colleges and universities, I don't think it is really the number as it is the cost. An average person cannot afford to attend a college or university without accumulating a mountain of debt. I have a friend who just graduated from College. He has a CJ degree, and is now working as a correctional officer. He has over 50 grand in debt, and he is working for DOC. Even if he gets into a high level Law Enforcement job, that debt is going to be hanging over him for at least a decade.
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SPC Andrew Griffin
SPC Andrew Griffin
10 y
This is a Fresh Perspective! Thank you Brother!
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Capt Retired
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I had the experience of being in charge of a building where the city/county jail was housed. I hated to go into the jail to investigate building problems.

One thing I found is that there were no one in jail that believed themselves to be guilty.

Why do people commit crimes? Everyone has an opinion. Many things contribute, poverty, lack of education, lack of family structure, etc etc.

Fact is crime is committed because the individual chooses to do so.
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SPC Andrew Griffin
SPC Andrew Griffin
10 y
Outstanding! You are RIGHT!
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