Posted on Aug 2, 2023
Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S.
15.8K
558
160
186
186
0
The VFW which is appropriately titled "Veterans of Foreign Wars" has been a topic of discussion for many of today's Veterans. Should they one day changing their Policies to include Veterans who do not have a Overseas or 'Foreign' Way on their DD214. This has been an issue or at least a question for a long time. Veterans who serve do so at the whim of a detailer who sends them where needed. Many Marines I served with Volunteered for Afghanistand and/or Iraq dozen of time to no avail. In many cases they were 'NEEDED' elsewhere due to their expertise in a 'non-combat' field or MOS. One in particual was a Black Belt Marine Corps Martial Arts Program 'MCMAP' Trainer and trained new Officers at the OCS academy where young Lieutenants went to train and learn their 'Combat' skills. He was never allowed to deploy due to his expertise and eventually got out of the service without a Foreign Deployment through no fault of his own but now he is 'Penalized' for not having a Deployment. He has been told to 'Go join the American Legion' but all of our freind groups are VFW...
Avatar feed
Responses: 95
SGM Mikel Dawson
50
50
0
That is the reason there is the American Legion. They are for all Service members who have served, deployed or not. He will get the same services from them as with the VFW.
(50)
Comment
(0)
SGM Mikel Dawson
SGM Mikel Dawson
1 mo
SrA Cecelia Eareckson - I live in Denmark. I have been trying to get a VSO for 3 months. So far zero, zip, nadda. So I continue to work on my own.
(1)
Reply
(0)
PO3 Karen Bolhuis
PO3 Karen Bolhuis
23 d
SrA Cecelia Eareckson - I am Sr. Vice at my VFW, and have held offices at my Marine Corps League, AmVets and American Legion. Never been to one that had any issues with me as a female. And VFW and MCL are definitely almost exclusively male. They are happy to have anyone who qualifies. Sometimes you just need to go in and talk to someone one on one.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SrA Cecelia Eareckson
SrA Cecelia Eareckson
23 d
Go matronize someone else. I have phoned, spoken face-to-face, e-mailed, and snail mailed. I'm not the only woman veteran who has had similar experiences. One woman actually joined her local VFW, and no one spoke to her, ever. She's a pleasant, polite person.
Usually, when a woman says she gets along just fine with VSO's or VA, it turns out she has some factor that gets her preferrential tx. What's yours?
(0)
Reply
(0)
SrA Cecelia Eareckson
SrA Cecelia Eareckson
23 d
SGM Mikel Dawson - Well, yes. I never left the States, and could not get any help from any VSO in three states, over a period of years. I wound up paying an hefty sum to a private attorney. It eas a matter of 80% of anything being better than 100% of nothing.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt Field Radio Operator
45
45
0
As a Vietnam Veteran, I signed up as a lifetime member of the VFW. I do not want the VFW to change their policy.
(45)
Comment
(0)
TSgt Bobby Dick Jr.
TSgt Bobby Dick Jr.
8 mo
I used the AMerican Legion and they took care of all my needs. This is an organization for all veterans was as the VFW specifically is for veterans that have seen combat. I was in during Vietnam but never was in country so therefore I am not a combat vet so I do not feel that I should be able to be a member. I have used the VFW but never ask to join
(1)
Reply
(0)
SMSgt Lloyd Knopp
SMSgt Lloyd Knopp
5 mo
TSgt Bobby Dick Jr. - All these organizations, AL, VFW, DAV, VVA, Purple Heart, and any of the myriad of other military/veteran organizations, be they Afghanistan, Iraq or Gulf War Vets (which I have seen more recently) are only as good as the individual, local chapter VSOs. If they are active, interested VSOs they can accomplish what one might need. I got mine thru the local VVA Chapter. I have been attempting to assist my wife in navigating some of these same hurdles to no avail. The local VVA is defunct. The AL/VFW doesn't have active VSOs. I have researched the DAV chapters within a 100 mile radius. Their phones are disconnected, their websites are not being maintained, they don't respond to e-mail. I went to the DAV office at the VAMC where we are being treated, they are 'only' a "transportation unit".
(3)
Reply
(0)
SPC Matt Ovaska
SPC Matt Ovaska
29 d
I don't think Vietnam vets with agent orange can get any help from anyone.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SrA Cecelia Eareckson
SrA Cecelia Eareckson
23 d
Here's the thing that tears it. I was eligible for VFW and AL, but did not know it. And when I enquired about joining, all I got was you are not eligible. No one took one minute to enquire about when and where I served. No one.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
COL Randall C.
37
37
0
Edited 10 mo ago
By "change their policies", I assume you mean "have Congress significantly alter the federal charter for the VFW spelled out in 36 USC Chapter 2301*", correct?

While I'm eligible to join the VFW six times over, I'm not a member, so really have no "dog in the fight". However, I respect the organization's purpose and do not see any value in changing them to become "another American Legion" because some that want to join are not allowed to because they lack the eligibility.

There are numerous reasons for and against any change to the charter, however most of the reasons for changing it to seems to benefit those primarily that want to join. The reasons for keeping the charter as it is heavily come down on the side of the organization.

Some of the top reasons I've heard about opening up eligibility are that it will have increased membership potential, be able to address non-combat veterans issues, expand the benefits and resources that the VFW gives to it's members, "you can help combat all veteran suicide" and other reasons of that type ("help all veterans with isolation", "help all vets with mental challenges", etc.), and "you aren't honoring all veterans for their sacrifice and service if you don't".

The main reasons I've heard against the expansion of the eligibility are almost all about the VFW maintaining it's identity, focus, tradition and conservation of certain resources. While the VFW's membership and focus on veterans with foreign service, the majority of their assistance and advocacy programs (VA claims, financial assistance, VA health care, etc.) are open to, or advocate for, all veterans - usually in partnership with other VSOs.

While I agree that all of the reasons for opening membership are true, that isn't the focus of the VFW. Does the VFW have services that can help all veterans facing challenging issues? Absolutely. Does ONLY the VFW have those services? No. In fact, they are literally one of dozens and dozens of organizations that can give assistance a plethora of veteran issues.

The VFW's mission is, "To foster camaraderie among United States veterans of overseas conflicts. To serve our veterans, the military and our communities. To advocate on behalf of all veterans." From an advocacy and assistance view, they are true to the last two parts of their mission. Expanding membership beyond what it is now is being untrue to their mission, loses focus and discards the history and traditions of the organization.
---------------------------------------
* 36 USC Ch. 2301 - https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title36/subtitle2/partB/chapter2301&edition=prelim
(37)
Comment
(0)
SP5 Gerald Santomassimo
SP5 Gerald Santomassimo
9 mo
I'm wondering why the sudden change. Is the VFW membership shrinking drastically? It seems to me that would be the best and only reason for this.
I only did a tour in Germany from 1972 so I don't believe I qualify for anything but the Legion. Not an issue for me at all, because I understand the need for our Veterans who were in the war zone to have a special advocacy for their unique needs. Frankly I'd be embarrassed to compare my short time in Schweinfurt to the hell that those who served in active combat went through. After all, the "combat" back then was trying to stay sober.....
(2)
Reply
(0)
SPC Joseph Nastasi
SPC Joseph Nastasi
5 mo
SPC Joseph Kopac - I was in ft hood 1975 till 77 the 1st Cav unit split and we became 7 / 17th ACCB [Air Cav Combat Brigade]..... I was in C troop we did Cobra gunships,,, I was a crewcheif on cobra's 68-17074 and 68-17072 SP4 joe nastasi some others in C troop Wilcox, Mack Dobkins, Rich Bebout, Al Stewart, do we know each other?
(1)
Reply
(0)
PO3 Michelle Tremblay
PO3 Michelle Tremblay
3 mo
I too am an eligible non member, but agree that VFW is for just that. Leave it alone
(2)
Reply
(0)
CPT Jerry Lucas
CPT Jerry Lucas
1 mo
You bring up a good point that Veterans Service Organizations such as the VFW and AL have congressional charters to do what they do and have to operate within the parameters of their charter. They are authorized to do certain things to assist veterans and the veterans they represent. I am a VFW life member and I was also an AL member until the local post upset me. I have friends that are members of the VFW, AL, MOPH, and VVA, as they were eligible for membership in each organization and felt each was worthy of their support. I recently used the VFW service officer staff at my local VA hospital to get my disability rating due to Desert Storm burn pit issues.

I urge all veterans to join a VSO they are eligible for and support them, even if you don't need help with the VA, as many other veterans need help and have a hard time navigating the VA system.
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Avatar feed
What do you think about the "Veterans of Foreign Wars" (VFW) one day changing their policies to include veterans with no foreign service?
SSgt Christophe Murphy
9
9
0
This conversation pops up and it's gets redundant after a while/ Every Veteran Nonprofit organization has eligibility requirements. DAV, Legion, Marine Corps League, Military Order of the Purple Heart, Paralyzed Veterans of America, AMVETS, Veterans of Vietnam War, Gold Star Wives, Air Force Sergeants Association and etc. They all have various eligibility requirements. Technically if the powers that be feel the need to change the charter they could certainly make the attempt to do so and make the argument to Congress. But before we do we should look at what we are changing and ask why. The VFW is there for those who meet the eligibility requirements. Those who served in harms way have a connection to each other and it is honestly an insult to try and move the bar to make somebody else happy who didn't serve in that capacity. It's not an insult to those who didn't but changing it wouldn't be fair to the others who did. I am a member of the Legion, DAV, VFW and Marine Corps League. Each org is unique and so are their eligibility. There are plenty of groups I can't join and I wouldn't ever expect them to change their standards just to make me happy.
(9)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MAJ Jay Callahalm
7
7
0
Frankly, I think that it would defeat the purpose. The whole purpose of the VFW is to be an organization for those who actually served in a war zone somewhere other than in the USA or its territories. I recognize that non-combatants are eligible for membership so long as they served in the defined areas during the defined times. A good friend of mine served in Vietnam, but because he could type well, he spent his entire deployment as a clerical worker at Vung Tau! (For those not familiar with it, Vung Tau was the biggest R&R center in 'Nam - the one place where guys in Vietnam WANTED to be!) He never heard a shot fired in anger. But, he was "there." In today's military, we have hundreds of thousands who have served in various post-Vietnam combat zones - Panama, Grenada, the whole "War on Terror" with OIF and OEF as well as actions in named operations in other areas like Bosnia, Syria, Somalia, etc. The trick is making any veterans' organization attractive to the social-networked generations of veterans.

If some of them want an organization for those who, like myself, served in uniform DURING times of war, but never were deployed to war zones, as well as including those who did - - - we have the American Legion for that. They also are having recruiting issues as younger military members just have very little interest in joining such organizations. They don't need to water-down the VFWs requirements since there is already an organization for the kind of people that they're talking about allowing in.
(7)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
1SG Russell S.
6
6
0
The American Legion is for all vets; the VFW is for those with a Campaign medal from a Foreign War, Pretty simple.
Now the real problem the Legion, VFW and DAV face in membership is that “clubs” are not really the thing for many younger vets. You see declining membership in the DAV, VFW and AL along with declining membership in Division Associations and declining attendance in most service organization meetings and reunions. I joined the VFW and in my experience it was a smokers club for Vietnam Vets and wives and really offered nothing I found interesting or appealing. I am a life member of DAV and continue to support them by sending “gifts…aka.$$” to them for the great work they do for vets…all vets.
I guess the VFW could change its name if Congress allows them to: “Veterans Who Went or Wanted to Go to War” then they could just hold joint meetings with The American Legion.
(6)
Comment
(0)
SGM Mikel Dawson
SGM Mikel Dawson
10 mo
It is like for me: I deployed to Kuwait/Iraq as an 11Z. When I got to Iraq I ended up going on patrol with an Infantry Platoon. Was I eligible to receive a CIB - no, was not assigned to an Infantry unit. Did I want a CIB, hell ya, every 11 series wants to get one, but only the right way. Could I have applied for a CAB, yea I could have, but for an 11 series the CAB is nothing, besides I retired after getting back, so it made no difference in the end. Same with the VFW, AL. VFW should not lower their standards just because. Too much of that going around these days.
(4)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
MSG Intermediate Care Technician
6
6
0
VFW membership requires certain/specific criteria. If your friend does not meet that criteria, then the American Legion is an option. Anyone that served can be in the Legion, but only those that met certain/specific criteria can be a member of the VFW. Should the VFW change their policy? No. They should not.
(6)
Comment
(0)
Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S.
Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S.
10 mo
The VFW is shrinking in membership and with it goes their massive influence on congress. In just the last 5 years they have lost over 250,000 members, mostly due to Death. Largest segment of members are Vietnam Veterans and they are all dying off at record numbers daily. I am a GOLD LEGACY LIFETIME MEMBER myself and a Current Sitting Commander of my Local Post but I believe as plain as the whiskers on my Chin if we don't change the Charter eventually we will die.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
5
5
0
Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S. I'm Probably More than a Little Biased on the Issue. Not the Best Reference. Lifetime Member of the VFW and Past Commanders Club of the Kansas VFW. When You have something that Makes You "Special" "Unique" You're Usually a Little Hesitant to Change things. If You Served during Wartime, Thank You, Much Appreciated and You Can Join the American Legion. You got a National Defense Ribbon, Outstanding! Now I've got Kuwait Liberation Medal and Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal. Get Those and I'll be More than Happy to See You Join the VFW,
(5)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Rhonda Rawson
4
4
0
No. The Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) should NOT change its policy because “service members who served during wartime but were not deployed to foreign ground” want to become members. As someone else stated, go join the American Legion. They need new members too! If you’re able, join Disabled American Veterans (DAV) they also need new members! There 3 organizations chartered by Congress for veterans, all mentioned above. Each organization has its own specific mission but the same camaraderie. Some veterans qualify to be members of all three; others however do not. Should the Air Force change its policy to allow All interested folks in their ranks no matter their ASVAB scores and other criteria they’ve set? No, of course not. The Air Force is different entity than the marines or army or navy. But we’re all soldiers, and upon exiting the armed forces, veterans. Leave the three original organizations as they are. Look into the history of how/why each organization was created or formed. Then you will understand WHY you are or are not eligible for one or another organization.
If anything, let’s create a fourth organization specifically for veterans (of course) that is ALL INCLUSIVE. But leave the Veterans of Foreign Wars as it is. Leave the American Leagion as it is. Leave the Disabled American Veterans as it is. All three offer camaraderie, and service or assistance to other veterans. If the individual organization allows it, attend the meetings as a guest….
(4)
Comment
(0)
Sgt Field Radio Operator
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
PO2 Mike Scott
4
4
0
As a Legacy Life member of the VFW, I'm proud to be able to say I served in a combat role. Those that did not, those are the cards you were delt. To change the membership requirements to allow everyone in go totally against what the name stands for. After all it is the oldest veterans' organization and was founded so that war time vets had a voice. We do help ALL veterans and their families when the need arises member or not. If we (the VFW) need to change our membership rules, then let's go ahead and change the membership rules of The Order of the Purple Heart to accept ALL members with hurt feelings.
(4)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close