Posted on Jan 7, 2017
What ever happened about Congress pushing for "one camouflage pattern for all branches"?
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Camouflage
Uniforms
Branch
Congress
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 64
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They stopped that to focus on transgender acceptance. Apparently they thought that would be more important to war fighting.
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1SG Dennis Hicks
CPT (Join to see) - I use the magic 8 ball for all important stuff and only pick my nose and ass when its required, everything else falls into place or people just melt down then I laugh.
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SN Terry Poynter
SGT Cass Hill - except for the whole mental issue of not knowing what gender they were born with and they ensuing psychological issues as they transistion and then statistically wind up committing suicide...yeah....just as good as any other soldier....yet we kick out alcoholics now because THEY have issues...smh
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SGT Cass Hill
SN Terry Poynter there is no mental issue. Every trans person in the world knows exactly who they are and it doesn't matter if what they are now is different than what they were once told they were. They called me a boy when I was born, but I'm a woman now, I know who I am a lot better than you do, if you have a problem with it, that's your issue not mine, that is your issue to work on, that is your obstacle to overcome. And the suicide issue is not intrinsic to being trans, it is the result of bullying and lack of acceptance, particularly by people they are closest to.
You and others like you are the problem, put your mouth in check fire until you learn to act like a leader instead of a bully
You and others like you are the problem, put your mouth in check fire until you learn to act like a leader instead of a bully
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Sounds like some member of Congress has a constituent (maybe a brother-in-law) in the camo fabric biz...
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SSgt Brad Becker
Marines do not need to dress like the Army, Navy and Airforce. The Navy does not need to wear the same pattern as the Army, Marines and Airforce. If the Airforce wants to wear the same as the Army that's their business. The Coast Guard will continue to wear dark Blue. Cops Wear dark blue or Black camies. They can all be made the same except for the Cloth color that's another matter that could be addressed. All Military Dress uniforms are different no reason why camie colors should not be.
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LtCol Steve Franks
In the picture, there is one camo outfit that stands out, it is so good you can't see it :).
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We did that once. They were generally called BDUs and DCUs. What was wrong with those? Sounds like a lobbyist got to a bunch of folks. MONEY! KICKBACKS? Nahhhhh.
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TSgt David L.
A1C Lexas Granger - Not a huge difference in the two other than the white spots. Yeah, a year makes a difference.
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A1C Lexas Granger
TSgt David L. I do believe the OCP should be universal in all branches if that’s the position they want to take. My first comment on this was to make variations of the uniform for each branch. But that’s my opinion and doesn’t really matter if you have your tags on at all times.
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TSgt David L.
A1C Lexas Granger - It worked well with BDUs but everyone has spent a ton on service specific uniforms. We still might get back there someday.
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SSG (Join to see) I don't think I've seen a very good response so far, a lot of good opinions but none really saying the true reason.
My understanding (don't quote me on this) is that there was legislation passed that said that if a new uniform were to be created from now on that it would be for all branches. What it didn't dictate was that all branches were required to unify right now and get rid of old patterns. As a result you see the transitions we are seeing right now where the Army and Navy are switching to more effective patterns that they had developed before the legislation.
This doesn't affect the Marines or the Air Force who are for now continuing to use their current patterns. Likely the Marines won't switch for a long time unless a battleground requires something other than their woodland or desert MARPAT.
As for the Air Force, I keep my hopes up that we will transition to the Scorpion or OCP that the Army and deployed AF already use. With a new Chief of Staff it could happen but at the same time we may see the blind logic of now retired General Welsh continue. His logic was that it wasn't a cost effective move for the AF despite there being no research needed into OCP and Scorpions effectiveness as well as the fact that all of the AF rank/name/branch/unit patches already exist for OCP. The Air Force also currently pays double for uniforms as they issue an unusable combat uniform to all new enlisted and officers and then issue OCP and Scorpion for deployers. One day someone will have the common sense to realize the best move now would be to just adopt OCP or Scorpion and be done with the "vanity" patterns still in use.
My understanding (don't quote me on this) is that there was legislation passed that said that if a new uniform were to be created from now on that it would be for all branches. What it didn't dictate was that all branches were required to unify right now and get rid of old patterns. As a result you see the transitions we are seeing right now where the Army and Navy are switching to more effective patterns that they had developed before the legislation.
This doesn't affect the Marines or the Air Force who are for now continuing to use their current patterns. Likely the Marines won't switch for a long time unless a battleground requires something other than their woodland or desert MARPAT.
As for the Air Force, I keep my hopes up that we will transition to the Scorpion or OCP that the Army and deployed AF already use. With a new Chief of Staff it could happen but at the same time we may see the blind logic of now retired General Welsh continue. His logic was that it wasn't a cost effective move for the AF despite there being no research needed into OCP and Scorpions effectiveness as well as the fact that all of the AF rank/name/branch/unit patches already exist for OCP. The Air Force also currently pays double for uniforms as they issue an unusable combat uniform to all new enlisted and officers and then issue OCP and Scorpion for deployers. One day someone will have the common sense to realize the best move now would be to just adopt OCP or Scorpion and be done with the "vanity" patterns still in use.
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SSgt (Join to see)
The Air Force is run by people who work in an office! They don't care to change the uniform because it does not affect their comfort or mission capability.
Until someone gets into power that understands that people in the non-desk jobs need a more practical and effective uniform we will not see a change. Plus what will they do with all the ABU patterned cases and back packs and other shit they were issued to blend in with nothing?
Until someone gets into power that understands that people in the non-desk jobs need a more practical and effective uniform we will not see a change. Plus what will they do with all the ABU patterned cases and back packs and other shit they were issued to blend in with nothing?
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SrA Matthew Knight
Saw all the news about it. Honestly a little disappointed it took so long, and of course occurred after I separated. I'd have bought and rocked OCPs even if I was in the last month of my service just to have a decent uniform for a change. Oh well, glad active airmen are finally getting a good uniform either way.
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I was an active-duty Marine when the decision was made to change the uniforms from BDUs to something different. I thought it was all about some general wanting to put something else on his resume, or someone had a friend in the textile industry, something like that.
And then I saw a picture of a Marine in digicammies standing next to a Marine in BDUs, and it was literally harder for me to focus my eyes on the guy in the digicammies. That made a believer out of me. Later, when I would see a formation from a distance, it was harder to tell where one Marine ended and the next Marine began. Marines would blend in with the treeline behind them better. Everything about the uniform was just better.
I understand why some people might refer back to the good old days when everyone wore the same uniform, but there was a legitimate reason why the Marines changed to an entirely new uniform.
And then I saw a picture of a Marine in digicammies standing next to a Marine in BDUs, and it was literally harder for me to focus my eyes on the guy in the digicammies. That made a believer out of me. Later, when I would see a formation from a distance, it was harder to tell where one Marine ended and the next Marine began. Marines would blend in with the treeline behind them better. Everything about the uniform was just better.
I understand why some people might refer back to the good old days when everyone wore the same uniform, but there was a legitimate reason why the Marines changed to an entirely new uniform.
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LCpl Darrell J. Farley Jr.
Cpl Elizabeth Koeneman But woe be unto the PFC or L/Cpl who would inadvertently buy a set in town on the cheap that didn’t have that trademark emblem!!! In the 80’s when we all had woodlands that SUCKED in the dry climate of Camp Pendleton. Whenever we were around any Army troops the only way those not in the know (how to tell the difference) was to mistakenly call a Marine “Soldier “ or a Soldier “Marine “. Neither of which was received cordially.
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SSgt Christopher Brose
LCpl Darrell J. Farley Jr. - The only way to tell was the cover, and maybe the boots, until you got close enough to see the rank. It took an experienced eye.
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MSgt Darren VanDerwilt
Oh yeah, the great camo debacle. First the Marines set up a unique uniform that was innovative and set them apart. Then the other services jumped on the train. Of course, allowing the other branches to use an altered version (minus the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor) of the Marine digicam pattern would've made fiscal sense. But from the few Marines I've spoken to on the subject, they're adamantly opposed to not being distinguishable from the other branches, to the point of getting red in the face over it. Fortunately, I retired when the Air Force was going through its "test" phase. Some of those uniforms resembled something you'd find some third world despot wearing.
Oh the memories. We were excited to switch from the old Air Force green utility uniform (Dubbed "monback's" because they looked like something a trash truck crew would wear. The guy on the back directing the driver closer to the trash cans by saying "mon-back.") to the BDU's. "You don't iron them," we were told. That lasted until some Blue Falcon did. With starch. Then Mr. TQM (Total Quality Management, aka, To Quote McPeak), became Air Force Chief of Staff, and a whole redo, removing all the unit, rank, and specialty patches, and replacing them with a single faux leather, Velcro patch like what pilots wear on their "onesies."
So, let's worry over uniforms. It's not like we have core competencies, equipment, retention, sexual assault, or DUI's to figured out.
Oh the memories. We were excited to switch from the old Air Force green utility uniform (Dubbed "monback's" because they looked like something a trash truck crew would wear. The guy on the back directing the driver closer to the trash cans by saying "mon-back.") to the BDU's. "You don't iron them," we were told. That lasted until some Blue Falcon did. With starch. Then Mr. TQM (Total Quality Management, aka, To Quote McPeak), became Air Force Chief of Staff, and a whole redo, removing all the unit, rank, and specialty patches, and replacing them with a single faux leather, Velcro patch like what pilots wear on their "onesies."
So, let's worry over uniforms. It's not like we have core competencies, equipment, retention, sexual assault, or DUI's to figured out.
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Col Robert Ginn
Well put, Sgt. VanDerwilt. Glad I jumped in '74 before a lot of decent young Americans were spoiled.
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The most fiscal responsible decision would be one uniform for all and allow each service to customize it however they fit. As for combat, they should pick a pattern for that particular environment and issue that to all troops. As they environment changes, they uniform could change as well. Trying to find one uniform that fits in all environments will never work. Might as well adapt to the situation.
Honestly though, the services will never agree and they don't mind wasting tax payers money just so each service can have its own personal uniform.
Honestly though, the services will never agree and they don't mind wasting tax payers money just so each service can have its own personal uniform.
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
I am still waiting for someone to give me a sane reason that the Navy needs to be in any type of Smurf Barf Camo. Who are they trying to hide from the MAA's? Their Chief's Sharks? The Seafarers have been an operational uniform for decades and it worked well from the flight decks to the bilges. The kakhi koated klowns in the Pentagon who put Sailors in Marine uniform needs a size 10 Boon Docker planted squarely between their thighs to drive whatever should be there out their well used bung holes. We do not need fiscal responsibility, just stop funding the UN and those countries who hate the US, burn our Flag and Kill Americans. We would have plenty of money for Uniforms and a Decent pay raise for the Enlisted ranks.
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Sgt Wayne Wood
Okay folks... dress uniforms unique to each service just like now.
Same utility uniforms for all branches with patterns specific to terrain/foliage/season.
And the Air Force can get long pants.
Same utility uniforms for all branches with patterns specific to terrain/foliage/season.
And the Air Force can get long pants.
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Lt Col Charlie Brown
PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM I needed a keyboard warning for your post, lol and then some
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Obamacare is the priority right now. Then the Great Wall of Mexico, then ethics reform, Russia reconciliation, ISIS, Supreme Court justice nominee then maybe we'll get around to a unified uniforms for the military branches
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SFC Dante Alanis
You forgot about participation trophies for Progressives. That's after Obamacare and before The Great Wall.
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PO3 John Wagner
SFC Dante Alanis - Yeah! You tell 'em Dante...can't be uninclusive of those progressives....good catch!
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Apparently congress is not as big on inclusiveness when it comes to the armed services
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PO3 John Wagner
No skin off their nose to piss on the military.....not a big enough constituency to throw an election...most military aren't going to vote in state elections in any case and they aren't lining the bastards pockets either
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They were talking about that around 2010 and money punchers came back and said that going to one uniform will not save money. This is what big leadership told us as we were getting ready to change over to Navy NWU II and III uniform. Actually it was the SOF community that pushing for one uniform.
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SSG (Join to see)
Oh I know. Funny thing is that they took the digital pattern from the Canadians and just changed the color pallette to then call it their own. The last thing I read about the whole changing back to the same camouflage for all branches was back in 2014 during a deployment.
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LCpl (Join to see)
lol, ok it was the Marine Corps. But I'd like to mention it was the cheapest, fastest decision. What the other branchesdid was to go crazy, especially the aquafllage (no mention).
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CPO (Join to see)
It was the Cheapest, because you guy's started it back in thier 90's and took some time to do it. I would agree I don't know why the Navy did what it did in 2007 when they went to that blue thing. I never wore as I was in NECC and us and NSW stayed in BDU's and DCU's until 2012 when we went to the NWU II and III and I will tell you that those two uniforms are the best I have ever had to wear.
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PO1 Kevin Dougherty
LCpl (Join to see) - Would that be the one that makes you hard to see against a few thousand tons of haze grey? LOL!
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Congress would be lucky if they ever came to terms on something as a whole.
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