Posted on Jan 3, 2016
What happens when a National Guard unit misses your pay when you're in between units?
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So, In August, I was told I had finally been promoted to a slot in another unit, and my PCS was effective, that I would need to report to my new unit for drill the following month, September. A week later, I got a call from the platoon sgt. at my old unit whom instructed me to report to drill with them, so as to participate in Annual PHS, saving my new unit the hassle of finding me a time and date to attend PHS.
So, I go with my old unit, spend all day there, and finally get dismissed. 2 weeks later, I noticed I hadn't gotten paid like usual, so instead of bothering either admin NCO, I decided to wait a little longer incase the pay hadn't been processed yet.
Next drill rolls around, october, and still hadn't been paid so I mention it to my new units Admin and readiness NCO, and they tell me they look into it.
The next month, November, having heard nothing, I asked for the status, and was told there is nothing that could be done about it, due to the fact that the old unit did not have me on their books to pay me, and the new unit did not know to start paying me. And that since the missed pay was for the previous fiscal year, September, that all the money allocated to pay for that drill had been spent and there was no money.
So my biggest question is, does my having a contract for my services with the US government not protect me from being infringed upon with my pay? Or can they do just that?
I find it hard to believe that I come to work and just because some one else goofed I don't get paid. Its not about the money, I dont need the money. Its the principle, especially in that of a new unit.
So, I go with my old unit, spend all day there, and finally get dismissed. 2 weeks later, I noticed I hadn't gotten paid like usual, so instead of bothering either admin NCO, I decided to wait a little longer incase the pay hadn't been processed yet.
Next drill rolls around, october, and still hadn't been paid so I mention it to my new units Admin and readiness NCO, and they tell me they look into it.
The next month, November, having heard nothing, I asked for the status, and was told there is nothing that could be done about it, due to the fact that the old unit did not have me on their books to pay me, and the new unit did not know to start paying me. And that since the missed pay was for the previous fiscal year, September, that all the money allocated to pay for that drill had been spent and there was no money.
So my biggest question is, does my having a contract for my services with the US government not protect me from being infringed upon with my pay? Or can they do just that?
I find it hard to believe that I come to work and just because some one else goofed I don't get paid. Its not about the money, I dont need the money. Its the principle, especially in that of a new unit.
Army National Guard
Promotions
SGT
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 18
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ALCON. Took me 1 phone call to get the answer for SGT Young. His pay is taken care of.
1SG (Join to see)
LTC (Join to see)
MAJ David Vermillion
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
COL Vincent Stoneking
SGM Billy Herrington
MAJ Ken Landgren
BG Mike Bridges
1SG (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see)
LTC (Join to see)
MAJ David Vermillion
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
COL Vincent Stoneking
SGM Billy Herrington
MAJ Ken Landgren
BG Mike Bridges
1SG (Join to see)
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see) Don't know what your links have to do with the topic at hand?
SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4"
SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4"
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SFC (Join to see)
SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" Looks like it's been taken care of. I believe the boss got it..lol
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SGT (Join to see)
Haha just seeing these posts, and yes it was coded correctly, but no I was not paid. My losing unit coded me, somehow, though I was on my gaining units books. The losing unit called me today and are taking a deeper look into it.
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Most likely you fell off the books at your old unit sometime between receiving instruction to report there and performing the duty, and no one communicated.
At issue is that your former unit can not pay you if you are not on the books, and your new unit does in fact have an FY challenge. I am less sure about the Guard, but I know EXACTLY how it works in the Reserve.
Here's what you need to do, SGT (Join to see):
1. If you haven't done so already, get an authenticated DA 1380 (or Guard equivalent) signed by someone in your old unit that can certify that you performed the duty.
2. Present that to your new unit, and fill out a pay inquiry (DA 2142 or Guard equivalent) to send to the State AG office. In the Reserve, it is the Reserve Pay Center in Fort McCoy; in the Guard it is almost certainly the state AG office.
3. If that fails, it is likely because your new unit just doesn't want to explain the reasons surrounding why they didn't do so in a timely manner (lack of communication is seldom an accepted excuse) or more insidiously, because the full time staff doesn't see it as their issue. IT IS their issue, because you were assigned to them. At this point, you'll need to go to the IG and get it sorted out.
You are entitled to the pay.
The argument that "there is no money" is bull$#!t. There is money alright, it is just in centralized accounts for exactly this reason, and needs a pretty big fish to release it. It is the state's money.
At issue is that your former unit can not pay you if you are not on the books, and your new unit does in fact have an FY challenge. I am less sure about the Guard, but I know EXACTLY how it works in the Reserve.
Here's what you need to do, SGT (Join to see):
1. If you haven't done so already, get an authenticated DA 1380 (or Guard equivalent) signed by someone in your old unit that can certify that you performed the duty.
2. Present that to your new unit, and fill out a pay inquiry (DA 2142 or Guard equivalent) to send to the State AG office. In the Reserve, it is the Reserve Pay Center in Fort McCoy; in the Guard it is almost certainly the state AG office.
3. If that fails, it is likely because your new unit just doesn't want to explain the reasons surrounding why they didn't do so in a timely manner (lack of communication is seldom an accepted excuse) or more insidiously, because the full time staff doesn't see it as their issue. IT IS their issue, because you were assigned to them. At this point, you'll need to go to the IG and get it sorted out.
You are entitled to the pay.
The argument that "there is no money" is bull$#!t. There is money alright, it is just in centralized accounts for exactly this reason, and needs a pretty big fish to release it. It is the state's money.
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If you haven't gone to your new unit's First Sergeant, I only have two words for you: Sergeant Major. You'd be surprised how fast you'll get answers and results.
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SGT (Join to see) Bad communication here def between the 2 units. It can get fixed. You've gotten some good advice from some, but a lot of it is USAR. They do things a tad bit different than us.
Hit me up with a contact request. I'm also in TNARNG, and a Readiness NCO. I may be able to help you out.
Hit me up with a contact request. I'm also in TNARNG, and a Readiness NCO. I may be able to help you out.
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As LTC (Join to see) said, this is the perfect thing for the 1SG or CSM to get involved in. This is exactly what "Open Door Policies" and "Excuse me 1SG/CSM, got a second?" are for.
MAJ David Vermillion hit the nail on the head on why it is important, and I have a feeling your 1SG/CSM will see it that way without any prompting.
However, and I pause for effect.. if they do not (they will).. the phrase "is this something I need to Request Mast for" (or whatever the Army equivalent is) can be uttered AFTER you get a definitive "no" or they tell you that their hands are being tied as well. This way you have allies on your side when it goes to the CO. "Administrative screwups" resulting in someone not getting paid will result in "inventive solutions" when the boss becomes involves.
MAJ David Vermillion hit the nail on the head on why it is important, and I have a feeling your 1SG/CSM will see it that way without any prompting.
However, and I pause for effect.. if they do not (they will).. the phrase "is this something I need to Request Mast for" (or whatever the Army equivalent is) can be uttered AFTER you get a definitive "no" or they tell you that their hands are being tied as well. This way you have allies on your side when it goes to the CO. "Administrative screwups" resulting in someone not getting paid will result in "inventive solutions" when the boss becomes involves.
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You are right, it's not the money. You performed a job and it needs to be rectified on your behalf. The answer they gave showed lack of concern for you. I believe they still can pay you, you might have to take your story to a higher command, like the Secretary of the Army.
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This is not grounds for an IG "complaint" but your IG can get you paid faster than anyone else, just present the facts. They work with your senior pay section leadership and both units in a fair and streamlined manner.
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As others have already stated, the answer your received is unsat. You attended drill and need to be paid, unless you are an unsat participant (just mentioned for completeness, clearly not the case). You were, to the best of your knowledge, under competent orders to attend (PSG direction).
Administratively, the CORRECT way to fix this is for the gaining unit to submit a pay correction for Sept. The EASIEST way to fix this is for the gaining unit to submit a 1380 for a "RST" with the old unit for "conduct SRP". This would need to be signed by someone with signature authority at the losing unit verifying your attendance, which shouldn't be an issue. (It has to be the gaining unit, because you didn't technically belong to the losing unit, so they CANNOT pay you.)
NOTE: Some will undoubtedly point out that my "easiest" way "can't be done", as both by policy and every reg I've ever seen, RSTs can't be authorized after the fact. I would respond that "Yes, it violates the letter and intent of the RST process. I prefer doing that and fixing the pay of a Soldier who acted in good faith. And I will happily defend this decision to my boss."
Administratively, the CORRECT way to fix this is for the gaining unit to submit a pay correction for Sept. The EASIEST way to fix this is for the gaining unit to submit a 1380 for a "RST" with the old unit for "conduct SRP". This would need to be signed by someone with signature authority at the losing unit verifying your attendance, which shouldn't be an issue. (It has to be the gaining unit, because you didn't technically belong to the losing unit, so they CANNOT pay you.)
NOTE: Some will undoubtedly point out that my "easiest" way "can't be done", as both by policy and every reg I've ever seen, RSTs can't be authorized after the fact. I would respond that "Yes, it violates the letter and intent of the RST process. I prefer doing that and fixing the pay of a Soldier who acted in good faith. And I will happily defend this decision to my boss."
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SFC (Join to see)
COL Vincent Stoneking Words of wisdom Sir. It can be fixed. Biggest problem I see in his description of the event is that there was little to no communication between losing and gaining unit. I am fully aware of what the policy is in TN(since I'm AGR here in TN..lol) concerning transfers and promotions.
IMO. He waited entirely too long to raise he flag. Unit(s) didn't do their due diligence.
I'd be more concerned (since he isn't concerned about the pay..his words) about the points for retirement. May not seem like much, but down the road those 4 points add up.
IMO. He waited entirely too long to raise he flag. Unit(s) didn't do their due diligence.
I'd be more concerned (since he isn't concerned about the pay..his words) about the points for retirement. May not seem like much, but down the road those 4 points add up.
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SGT (Join to see) Even though your pay is squared away, watch out for your points. I had this happen to me when I got promoted from SFC - MSG. It wasn't until my RYE date and checking my points I found I was credited with a bad year for retirement. I had to submit all my LES for that year. It took an additional year until I was notified and could check I'd received all my points. Watch out, heads up and keep those LESs - they are the best proof of service.
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If all else listed here fails, an Inspector General complaint may be in order.
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