14
14
0
I am asking this because I was on the VA website and saw where it has me listed as having PTSD, but have it down as non-combat related since it stems from SGT Akbar (AKA Mark Kools) killing at least 2 and wounding 12-14 soldiers/officers at camp Pennsylvania before we went into Iraq. I know we weren't techniquely in combat yet since we were in Kuwait & not Iraq, but he was fighting against us so I would think that would make it combat related. What are your thoughts?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 37
The problem is that he was not classified as "the enemy" even though he sided with the enemy and engaged US troops. It's the same reason the people attacked by MAJ Hassan were considered casualties of workplace violence rather than a terrorist attack. I think the rules should be changed so that insider threats are considered enemy combatants.
(14)
(0)
SPC James Seigars
Thank you, SSG Michael Johnson. I didn't know that they aren't considered enemy combatants. That definitely does need changing.
(3)
(0)
LTC Michael Hrycak
I was assigned as senior Casualty Assistance Officer for the week of 1LT Louis Allen's funeral. He, and CPT Louis Esposito were killed by a claymore in CPT Esposito's office in FOB Danger, in 2005. Although the prosecution failed, it was an attack by one of their Soldiers. We ran into an Army culture that could not grasp that the loss of these Soldiers affected the family just as much, if not more, than a KIA by hostile forces. The murder of LT Allen and CPT Esposito should have been the testbed to change that culture, but no significant effort ever appeared. Your matter was similar and Service Members, and their families, should know what to expect instead of being allowed to fall between the veritable cracks. Keep trying, and so will we.
(4)
(0)
CPT James Burkholder
It seems to me that the assignment of "workplace violence" as opposed to terrorist attack was more a political decision by the CIC than one that would stand up to scrutiny by most Americans. You got screwed by the politics.
(7)
(0)
Maybe this will be unpopular, but I'm going to say it anyway. No, it's not combat related. You were attacked, and that means something. However, it's not the same as combat. I'm not familiar with the VA process here because I overcame PTSD on my own by coming to terms with what happened, and recognizing that it is a part of war, which has been part of humanity for thousands of years. Do you need the combat related rating for some extra benefit?
(5)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
Nice to hear you dealing. Just be cognizant of the future. Do ever feel you're cured, you are just coping well.
(2)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
SGT Laskaris... touché. You could not remain in a state of PTSD or Pure bliss, and it does not mean I expect it to be a daily battle. But some people really can't get over some things. I lived with my dad for many years and from what I saw he dealt perfectly fine after Vietnam. I was grown and away from home before he had a breakdown. He wasn't treated before then or trying to get paid for it because it was dormant. Some of these people just know there is a dollar sign behind PTSD, my biggest point is those who really have to deal are concerned about getting help and not the classification. Not all survived or led a normal life after concentration camps. Just like many may have lost more than others don't suffer any signs of PTSD. Others do, unfortunately they don't screen for mental health prior to enlistments so there are broken and barely surviving life people joining the ranks.
(2)
(0)
SSG Warren Armitage
As you said no such thing as civillian hand grenades however we were not at war yet so there fore it cannot be classified a war injury.
(0)
(0)
Capt Seid Waddell
SSG Warren Armitage, that sounds like splitting hairs to me; you were part of the buildup preparing for the first attack of the war. Is the preparation for the invasion not an integral part of the war?
(0)
(0)
SPC James Seigars to me combat related is reliving your vivid memories of a trauma event, that you can't get out of your head. Good movie to watch.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob%27s_Ladder_(film)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob%27s_Ladder_(film)
(5)
(0)
SPC James Seigars
SFC Joe S. Davis, Jr. One of the officers he killed was Capt. Christopher Seifert who I considered a friend despite the difference in rank (I was a SGT at the time) and whom I had just eaten with a short time prior to his being killed. I also saw major stone get shot and almost got shot by SGT Akbar myself. To me it is very real, but not real enough to the VA apparently.
(3)
(0)
What is considered Combat Related to you?
When you have spent hours under intense, non-stop fire from an enemy combatant, who cares nothing for your existence, who will hunt you down til you're exhausted, whose definition of human life is not the same as yours...you will know what is considered combat-related.
When you have spent every second, every minute, every hour of the day soaking wet, bone dry thirsty, burning hot, ducking lead and hiding so you can jump some poor, unsuspecting soul...you will know the difference.
When you're hiking a dirty trail, look up and your buddies head disappears in front of you from a sniper hiding in a spider hole, then you'll know what combat-related is.
When you have spent a day praying that you can find a place to relieve yourself or just take a sh** because your constipated belly hurts so bad...without getting shot...then you will know the difference.
When you are faced with whether to shoot a little 8 yr. old girl holding an M29 (pin pulled) that will blow you to pieces, you will know the difference.
When you are done picking up the pieces of your best friend, an ammo bearer shot by a sniper round, then you will know the difference.
Trust me...having some irrational idiot come running into a barracks and blow up some friendly hardly defines a combat zone...yeh, I feel bad for those poor souls and their families but if I were you I would read the local papers...they are full of gang-related kills no different than the event you are describing....and it happens every day...in the good ole USA. You don't have to go to Kuwait.
My Son (a Marine Sniper for the 3/4 during the hunt for Saddam H.) lost both his legs while chasing down some of those combatants...ask him what Combat-related is?
When a person has really been in combat, they don't ask this question...they know the difference. PTSD? Hell, I'm pretty sure you don't know what that is. I was shot three times in the same operation near Duc Hoa, Vietnam on a search and destroy (at least that's what we were told)...year and a half in the hospital and 100% disability...to date I've had about 40 surgeries in as many years. I know what combat is...it will never change. It's a nasty business but mostly...hauntingly unforgettable.
Count yourself Lucky and move on! This kind of bull*** makes me sick because it makes it difficult for the real combat people...civilians look you in the face and ask themselves "...if you're one of those?..."...you know...the guy with the Purple Heart awarded for diving on the ground and running a stick up his nose.
BTW: You don't say how you came by this PTSD? Were you involved with the Sgt while he performed this dastardly act? Hand-to Hand? Taking shots? Or were you watching the activity? if that's the case we should diagnose most of the kids in the USA with PTSD...they watch this kind of stuff everyday on their TV sets and through their video games. Call me...I'll give you some therapy stories you'll never forget. I might be wrong but I'm guessing that the probability is high that the greater part of any given population, if properly examined, would already have some sort of PTSD...they don't have to be in the Military. Some of the activity that goes on in the inner cities rivals any combat conditions. Hope this helps...Unfortunately, I haven’t forgotten any of this...that’s Combat-related PTSD! Good Luck!
When you have spent hours under intense, non-stop fire from an enemy combatant, who cares nothing for your existence, who will hunt you down til you're exhausted, whose definition of human life is not the same as yours...you will know what is considered combat-related.
When you have spent every second, every minute, every hour of the day soaking wet, bone dry thirsty, burning hot, ducking lead and hiding so you can jump some poor, unsuspecting soul...you will know the difference.
When you're hiking a dirty trail, look up and your buddies head disappears in front of you from a sniper hiding in a spider hole, then you'll know what combat-related is.
When you have spent a day praying that you can find a place to relieve yourself or just take a sh** because your constipated belly hurts so bad...without getting shot...then you will know the difference.
When you are faced with whether to shoot a little 8 yr. old girl holding an M29 (pin pulled) that will blow you to pieces, you will know the difference.
When you are done picking up the pieces of your best friend, an ammo bearer shot by a sniper round, then you will know the difference.
Trust me...having some irrational idiot come running into a barracks and blow up some friendly hardly defines a combat zone...yeh, I feel bad for those poor souls and their families but if I were you I would read the local papers...they are full of gang-related kills no different than the event you are describing....and it happens every day...in the good ole USA. You don't have to go to Kuwait.
My Son (a Marine Sniper for the 3/4 during the hunt for Saddam H.) lost both his legs while chasing down some of those combatants...ask him what Combat-related is?
When a person has really been in combat, they don't ask this question...they know the difference. PTSD? Hell, I'm pretty sure you don't know what that is. I was shot three times in the same operation near Duc Hoa, Vietnam on a search and destroy (at least that's what we were told)...year and a half in the hospital and 100% disability...to date I've had about 40 surgeries in as many years. I know what combat is...it will never change. It's a nasty business but mostly...hauntingly unforgettable.
Count yourself Lucky and move on! This kind of bull*** makes me sick because it makes it difficult for the real combat people...civilians look you in the face and ask themselves "...if you're one of those?..."...you know...the guy with the Purple Heart awarded for diving on the ground and running a stick up his nose.
BTW: You don't say how you came by this PTSD? Were you involved with the Sgt while he performed this dastardly act? Hand-to Hand? Taking shots? Or were you watching the activity? if that's the case we should diagnose most of the kids in the USA with PTSD...they watch this kind of stuff everyday on their TV sets and through their video games. Call me...I'll give you some therapy stories you'll never forget. I might be wrong but I'm guessing that the probability is high that the greater part of any given population, if properly examined, would already have some sort of PTSD...they don't have to be in the Military. Some of the activity that goes on in the inner cities rivals any combat conditions. Hope this helps...Unfortunately, I haven’t forgotten any of this...that’s Combat-related PTSD! Good Luck!
(4)
(0)
1LT Erin Berg
And this entire answer demonstrates that you are one of those people who likes to whip it out and measure whenever he can. Trauma is different in every person. That's science. You are not better than this SPC, so stop acting like you're the only one who deserves to own the label of PTSD.
(0)
(0)
There are 3 types of PTSD. Combat PTSD, Personal PTSD, and Military Sexual Trauma. The PTSD you mention is based on fear of hostile military action or an event. In this case, your event qualifies you individually to claim PTSD because you were in fear for your life with the attack by that turncoat and also it was a hostile act. You'd straddle the line between combat and a personal action PTSD. Even so, VA is not going to nitpick it if you can establish you were there during the event. If you can't VA has to establish it through a memo to JSSRC which may slow your claim down, but in the long run, if it's substantiated and if the Comp and Pen examiner opines that you have PTSD due to fear and easing standards, you'll get it. I can't tell you what percentage but that would be based on the diagnosis the examiner gave.
(4)
(0)
PO1 George Titsworth
I work for VBA so I know these things. VA does not arbitrarily try to grant PTSD to everyone, nor does it seek to deny PTSD to everyone. Your service treatment records and the opinion of your compensation and pension examiner will make or break your case.
(0)
(0)
SGT (Join to see)
So what would be the classification of PTSD of someone who suffers from PTSD after working in an emergency room trying to put bodies back together?
(0)
(0)
Sorry brother, you got BOHICA'd on that one. I'm talking major green weenie. Personally, I don't see it as anything but combat related. Deployed to the CENTCOM AOR, drawing combat $$, and grenades going off by a traitor, etc. The second he turned traitor and attacked blue forces he was an enemy combatant. Was this considered workplace violence? Incredible.
(4)
(0)
You were in the CENTCOM AOR when this happened which, at the time. was a war zone. Early in OIF they changed the rules so that one day in CENTCOM AOR qualified you for the combat patch. If I were your treating physician, I would have definitely have listed this as a combat injury
(4)
(0)
http://www.benefits.va.gov/WARMS/topic-compensation-pension.asp Has some information, but I didn't see the distinction in the C&P Raters guide (near the bottom of the center of the page) between combat and non-combat related PTSD (maybe I over looked it).
This second link is a search of VA's guidelines, for which there are many. http://www.index.va.gov/search/va/va_search.jsp?NQ=URL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.benefits.va.gov%2FWARMS%2Fwhats_new.asp&QT=combat+related+ptsd+definition&submit.x=23&submit.y=19
This second link is a search of VA's guidelines, for which there are many. http://www.index.va.gov/search/va/va_search.jsp?NQ=URL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.benefits.va.gov%2FWARMS%2Fwhats_new.asp&QT=combat+related+ptsd+definition&submit.x=23&submit.y=19
Compensation and Pension Materials - Web Automated Reference Material System
List of Veterans Benefits Administration Benefits Topics
(4)
(0)
Never heard of combat-related, non-combat related - it's most certainly SERVICE-CONNECTED and I thought that's all the VA cared about or rated for. I would guess the "combat-related" would come in for a decision to award the Purple Heart. Although friendly fire, it occured in a combat zone (declared by an executive order by the president) and therefore one would think it's combat-related however, the definition of combat (to oppose in battle, fight against) is slightly different for the military (an action fought between 2 military forces).
(4)
(0)
SPC Michelle Nelson - Thompson
To me definition of friendly fire meant it was a mistake or error that resulted in death/injury of someone fighting on the same side. There was nothing "friendly" about this regardless of the perp being a soldier, he was no longer on the same side. The second he decided he was going to strike out against his fellow soldiers he became the enemy. When he attacked that made him an enemy combatant. The military needs to update it's definition of combat. With lone wolf, planned terrorist attacks and traitors there is no longer a clear cut "us and them."
(0)
(0)
Read This Next

Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF)
Combat
PTSD
Friendly Fire
