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The rank of Chief Warrant Officer 6 was approved by the house but not by senate. Is there a case to be made for positional ranks similar to O9 and O10? No pay increase, just a higher position. Maybe 1 per functional branch?
[edit from original]
it looks like everyone missed the point of my question. I am asking for the devil's advocate argument in favor of a CW6. I don't there is one, but apparently there was enough of one in the past to suggest the billet. I just want to see if there is a reasonable argument for it for debate sake. I will try one:
Here goes,
The point of a CW6 is to bridge the gap of those personnel that want to – currently – be CW5 and then occupy the billet for more than a decade. Thereby blocking 1-2 cohorts from ever being allowed to attain the position.
Warrants are authorized up to 30 years as a Warrant. 10 U.S. Code § 571 limits active duty CW5s to 5% of the total on active duty.
WO1 – 2 years
CW2 – 5 years
CW3 – 5 years
CW4 – 5 years
That’s 17 years as a Warrant.
CW5 – now the CW5 could potentially sit in this position for 13 more years.
Creating a CW6 would significantly reduce this eventual issue to potentially sitting in a CW6 billet for 8 years and blocking far fewer.
Again, I'm just curious about the arguments in favor of authorizing a CW6.
[edit from original]
it looks like everyone missed the point of my question. I am asking for the devil's advocate argument in favor of a CW6. I don't there is one, but apparently there was enough of one in the past to suggest the billet. I just want to see if there is a reasonable argument for it for debate sake. I will try one:
Here goes,
The point of a CW6 is to bridge the gap of those personnel that want to – currently – be CW5 and then occupy the billet for more than a decade. Thereby blocking 1-2 cohorts from ever being allowed to attain the position.
Warrants are authorized up to 30 years as a Warrant. 10 U.S. Code § 571 limits active duty CW5s to 5% of the total on active duty.
WO1 – 2 years
CW2 – 5 years
CW3 – 5 years
CW4 – 5 years
That’s 17 years as a Warrant.
CW5 – now the CW5 could potentially sit in this position for 13 more years.
Creating a CW6 would significantly reduce this eventual issue to potentially sitting in a CW6 billet for 8 years and blocking far fewer.
Again, I'm just curious about the arguments in favor of authorizing a CW6.
Edited 2 y ago
Posted 2 y ago
Responses: 20
I had not thought about the 'promotion blockage' aspect before. Interesting. Thanks for bringing it up. Would I have stayed in longer for it, yes. Seems it worked out for me and the Army, and yet using rank as a motivation has its value. Thank you.
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I do not see any need for a CWO6, at least not from the Navy.
The grade and positions of CWO5 is dictated by congress. There are very few CWO5s as it stands and their roles vary tremendously. Let's remember that for the Navy at least, CWO2 requires at least 14 years of service and having been an E7 or above to begin with.
CWO5 are a rarity and can hold very high positions in leadership and trust. Warrants by and large, whether a CWO2 or a CWO5, are respected and their word carries tremendous weight. I can only speak for myself, but unlike enlisted and officer grades, a warrant is a warrant.
I am not sure how many people are "sitting" in a CWO5 billet for long. From what I understand, they are all but ready and eligible to retire. I suppose a similar argument could be made to E9s. I've known a couple Master Chiefs in the Navy who do not yet meet the time requirement for CWO2.. so I suppose you could argue you can always try to promote up by commissioning (Warrant or Line Officer).
At the end of the day, each branch is given a number of higher grade based billets that require congressional approval. It's not a matter of opening up a higher grade.. but one of billeting, funding, and approval.
Warrants have their role. It's a specific role. Everything else can either be divided into an enlisted or officer role. There is nothing in the military not already being done well by other grades that would require a CWO6.
The grade and positions of CWO5 is dictated by congress. There are very few CWO5s as it stands and their roles vary tremendously. Let's remember that for the Navy at least, CWO2 requires at least 14 years of service and having been an E7 or above to begin with.
CWO5 are a rarity and can hold very high positions in leadership and trust. Warrants by and large, whether a CWO2 or a CWO5, are respected and their word carries tremendous weight. I can only speak for myself, but unlike enlisted and officer grades, a warrant is a warrant.
I am not sure how many people are "sitting" in a CWO5 billet for long. From what I understand, they are all but ready and eligible to retire. I suppose a similar argument could be made to E9s. I've known a couple Master Chiefs in the Navy who do not yet meet the time requirement for CWO2.. so I suppose you could argue you can always try to promote up by commissioning (Warrant or Line Officer).
At the end of the day, each branch is given a number of higher grade based billets that require congressional approval. It's not a matter of opening up a higher grade.. but one of billeting, funding, and approval.
Warrants have their role. It's a specific role. Everything else can either be divided into an enlisted or officer role. There is nothing in the military not already being done well by other grades that would require a CWO6.
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This make more since in the Guard since W-5’s can and do park at position for years. Especially AGR’s and technician. Technicians in particular must remain in the guard as a condition of their federal employment.
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There is no need for a CW6. Where would you place them? When I retired in 2008 after 35 years we were struggling to fill the CW5 positions. CW5’s make up no more the 5% of the total Warrant Officer Corp, unless that has changed. What would be the educational criteria for such a rank! There were some CW5’s that had advanced degrees, but it was hard for some of us to even get a Bachelor’s degree because we spent most of our time in Divisions until we were selected for CW5. We would have to cut positions from LTC or Col positions and that will never happen, primarily because they need to grow their ranks too.
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I could see it being useful for branch immaterial positions above the tactical level... basically Army Senior Warrant Officer Council members that are acting beyond the scope of their branch; i.e. ARSTAFSWO, COCOM CCWOs, ACOM/ASCC CCWOs, CAC CCWO, ARNG/USAR CCWOs (and possibly individual state CCWOs). There's a reason these jobs are branch immaterial; clearly they are no longer acting in the narrow technical capacity required specifically for their WOMOS/Branch, but rather in a broader role that requires an abundance of general Warrant Officer experience which they have accrued over decades of service as a Warrant Officer.
As you mention, there is also a "bottle-neck" for promotion to CW5 because the most senior Warrants have the option to serve in the grade of W5 for basically twice as long as any of the other warrant grades. Creating the CW6 rank would allow all CW5 billets to remain branch specific, thus branches would not lose one of their few CW5s to an immaterial job. These branch immaterial jobs are already not "entry level" CW5 jobs and those selected usually have held a couple other CW5 assignments prior anyway, so this rank would provide an extra financial incentive commensurate with their broader duties of developing overall WO policy, steering, and utilization guidance. This would also solve some of the bottle-neck issues for promotion to CW5 by creating another "up or out" promotion gate (branches would still retain the ability to SELCON warrants as needed that are non-select for CW6).
Lastly, I would say that this rank should be truly branch immaterial and competed as such for promotion. It would be akin to when COLs of virtually all branches compete for GO. Techs and Aviators would compete against each other for CW6 with no floors or ceilings related to individual WOMOS's or branches. Warrant Officers selected for promotion to CW6 would receive a new branch immaterial WOMOS (011A or similar) upon promotion.
This rank may be less germane to the other services, but for the Army, which already has the largest number of WOs, and is already utilizing WOs in some non-technical capacities, I think this rank has merit.
As you mention, there is also a "bottle-neck" for promotion to CW5 because the most senior Warrants have the option to serve in the grade of W5 for basically twice as long as any of the other warrant grades. Creating the CW6 rank would allow all CW5 billets to remain branch specific, thus branches would not lose one of their few CW5s to an immaterial job. These branch immaterial jobs are already not "entry level" CW5 jobs and those selected usually have held a couple other CW5 assignments prior anyway, so this rank would provide an extra financial incentive commensurate with their broader duties of developing overall WO policy, steering, and utilization guidance. This would also solve some of the bottle-neck issues for promotion to CW5 by creating another "up or out" promotion gate (branches would still retain the ability to SELCON warrants as needed that are non-select for CW6).
Lastly, I would say that this rank should be truly branch immaterial and competed as such for promotion. It would be akin to when COLs of virtually all branches compete for GO. Techs and Aviators would compete against each other for CW6 with no floors or ceilings related to individual WOMOS's or branches. Warrant Officers selected for promotion to CW6 would receive a new branch immaterial WOMOS (011A or similar) upon promotion.
This rank may be less germane to the other services, but for the Army, which already has the largest number of WOs, and is already utilizing WOs in some non-technical capacities, I think this rank has merit.
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CW6??? The Coast Guard feels it's unnecessary to have any CWO5's at all. Highest is CWO4.
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I think the Services with Warrant Officers may have strayed from the purpose of the Warrant Officer Corps. IMO Warrant Officers are the super-experts in their specialty. They aren't intended to be in command or a substitute for commissioned officers. Yes, I know CW2 through 5 are "commissioned." I have to draw some distinction between the Warrant and Officer ranks, so I choose the use the term "commissioned Officer" for O-1 through O-10. I didn't understand the need for CW5 and don't see the need for CW6. If it's a pay issue, then increasing overall Warrant Officer pay rates may be the answer. If it's because of the level of command some Warrant Officer's work at, then I think the Warrant Officers aren't being used correctly. Having a "Senior Warrant Officer Advisor" to Commanders at levels of command above Battalion/Squadron seems like a waste of manpower. The technical experts are most valuable at the levels where the work is actually accomplished or directly supervised. At the highest, it might be needed where operational planning is done, so maybe a mobility planning expert at the Division or Numbered Air Force level. Experts in supply, maintenance, medical, even flying, are most valuable at the operational level.
The problem may be the percentage of the force that can hold the CW4 and CW5 ranks. Increasing the percentage a couple of points might have the desired improvement of upward mobility. Another option might be to encourage Warrant Officers with appropriate potential to move to the commissioned officer corps. The Services could offer various considerations for CW3-5 that want to commission. For example, they might be allowed to commission directly as O-2 or O-3 instead of coming in as a 2LT.
The problem may be the percentage of the force that can hold the CW4 and CW5 ranks. Increasing the percentage a couple of points might have the desired improvement of upward mobility. Another option might be to encourage Warrant Officers with appropriate potential to move to the commissioned officer corps. The Services could offer various considerations for CW3-5 that want to commission. For example, they might be allowed to commission directly as O-2 or O-3 instead of coming in as a 2LT.
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Suspended Profile
Not “commissioned”
Commissioned.
Commissioned.
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Suspended Profile
Lt Col Jim Coe
I was removing the quotation marks. Not asking that it be capitalized.
Warrant Officers are commissioned from Chief Warrant Officer 2 and beyond. Just clearing that up.
I was removing the quotation marks. Not asking that it be capitalized.
Warrant Officers are commissioned from Chief Warrant Officer 2 and beyond. Just clearing that up.
CW4 (Join to see) It is your question. Were you trained to ask questions you do not know the answer to?
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CW4 (Join to see)
Well, prior to being an Attaché Ops Warrant, I was a HUMINT tech for 11 years...so, yes?
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When I was a junior medic, we revered the Warrant Officer Physician Assistants. I was pretty crushed when I was in basic and was informed they weren't taking more PA WOCs in their transition to commissioned officers. It worked out in the end for me professionally, but I think the mythos of Chief Warrant Officer will always be imbedded. I certainly support the concept of a unicorn CWO6 and could imagine it could serve as a motivator for those revered colleagues, but can't speak to the need of such things.
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