Posted on Aug 16, 2017
CPL Metal Worker
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Apologies for my terrible English. Here is the question broken down and explained in what I hope is in better terms.
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
Edited 8 y ago
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CW2 Electronic Warfare Technician
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Make SM take another test and there ya go. No way to be sure of the past, take new test and run with it. The army needs to use the rules that are in place. For too long we have "protected" our friends and worried about careers instead of the Army. This is not a normal profession, one soldier's career does not mean more than the strength of the force. It does not matter if someone "needs points", that's their problem, not the Army's. If they did lie, it will happen again and it can be found and acted on. It's a damn PT test, it's the easiest thing the army has.
Is it used to much to assess an entire soldier, absolutely. It sucks in every way, but it's what we have. A damn 180 is all that's needed, and for some reason the army makes it that a 300 is more important than getting an education.
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1SG Jeffrey Mullett
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She is not the only integrity issues in the Army, but if she is willing to change, she can take responsibility for her actions, take the reduction and possible Article 15 (further reduction) as a lesson. She can either become a better Soldier, and Human Being, or she can take a less-than honorable, and find a line of work better suited to her level of honor, or lack there of.
The NCO who pencil whipped the APFT should also be held accountable.
I would be more concerned with an NCO who would be willing to do this, because NOT ONLY is he/she not looking out for the Soldier, and providing bad judgement and a bad example, but they are lacking Ethics, Honor AND Duty. Any ONE of those is grounds for removal.
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CH (MAJ) Tom Conner
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Failing a PT test is damaging to one's career, regardless of the reasons. A Soldier's responsibility is to maintain a state of fitness and be prepared at any given time to take, and pass, a PT test. Had the Soldier brought it to the attention that she received a pencil-whipped score, the onus would be on the NCO. Now that it has been a while, the NCO has moved on, and she has failed a subsequent test, SHE is going to have to face the consequences. My question is why are you concerned about damaging her career? She took care of that on her own by failing the PT test!
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CAPT Carlos Flanagan
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OK, this is very simple. Step one, train for PT test. Step two, pass the PT test. I'm guessing that this soldier thought she would never have to take another PT because the last one was perfect. Never pays to try to cheat the man. In this case that man is the leadership process.
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COL Al Fracker
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As others have commented, this isn't about PT. It's about integrity. About 40 some years ago, the Army switched from a demanding 5 event PT test to a much easier 3 event test. Is the Army addressing the current challenges of AIT PT failures? Yes. They have extended some MOS training by 1-2 weeks. Students no longer must pass PT test to graduate and report to a unit. F8nallt, the Army has approved a new PT test. I suspect it will be harder to pass than the current one, and it is resource intensive, so it likely won't survive. Yes, with technology, many jobs are no longer physical...which is wht we have GS employees. Soldiers should have a standard, and if one wants to get promoted, the PT test is really easy to pass. NCOs (and officers) lead by example. If they don't, they are a discredit to the Army.
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Sgt Charles Welling
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Simple and the same as an incident I had to confront when an employee falsified critical measurements from a gas turbine combustion section, I fired him. This soldier has no place in the military, she had to know the test was falsified and went along with it. Bad conduct discharge...……… period. We have enough corrupt people in DC, the military doesn't need them.
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MSG Moises Maldonado
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In my Opinion Most of Any Score in PT is Pencil Whipped for Women.. ..I was in for 22.5 Years and Never had a 300 Pt Score.. Never Failed a Test But never Maxed it.. That Said.. Most Females Can't Even Brake Plane on Push Ups.. They just Bob Head and Barely Flex the Elbow... That's What happens when The Standards are Lowered to accommodate Political Correctness. . Yeah... Those poor Souls.. Let's Give them a Break.. and So it goes.. .. I don't Care let's have a PT Test Score Even across the Board.. An E-5 Male get X $$$ in Pay.. So does a Female.. Why Then have Different Standards? Don't Give me that BS of Skeletal & Muscle Difference.. You are in the ARMY now,, Deal With it... Did I mentioned I'm From the (Old)ARMY Decades Ago... Probably This Particular Female E-4(p) wasn't even Born When I Retired..
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CSM Greg Clancy
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CPL Santos, see this is what's wrong with our society today and our military. People just dont "DO THE RIGHT THING" anymore! I assume you are a friend of this Soldier with no sense of integrity? You are correct, you are complicit in knowing the whole story. To start with I would grab your friend and have a serious heart to heart with her about doing the right thing and coming clean with herself and her immediate leadership. This is what professional Soldiers do, they police up each and keep each other in line. There isn't always going to be a squad leader or platoon sergeant around to wet nurse every Soldier. Soldiers are expected to take care of each other during good times and bad. Its just what we do. Forget about the damage to her career and the short term affects this has and will continue to have.The bigger issue is her lack of integrity and that will continue to fester as she stays in the military. Somewhere down the road she will encounter a situation that is similar to what she did and feel that she " got away with it" and its no big deal that she'll be tempted to do it again. I think she is obviously missing the big picture; she has broken the trust we all must have to survive. Without trust there is nothing. Also she has to take responsibility for what has happened. It Doesn't matter the circumstances. She needs to own it and be accountable to herself and her oath. So, go grab your battle buddy and tell her shes wrong, she needs to stand up and accept responsibility for what has happened, put all her cards on the table with her leadership and then let the chips fall where they may. If she does not come clean then she's bigger problems ahead of her. One thing that always pissed me off to no end was why Soldiers would let other Soldiers get away with bullshit like this without any " peer to peer" counseling. I mean everyone in that unit must be totally fine with one of their own having no integrity and putting one over on everyone else. Right? I certainly hope not. But you know about it and I'm sure others do as well. So why is ok for her to do this? Doesn't that piss you you off? Her actions have NO place in the military and cannot be tolerated. That said I'm all for trying to salvage a wayward Soldier before kicking them to the curb. I do believe in second chances but Soldiers have to earn that and of course they have to earn back the trust they broke and be willing to endure some asspain to get back to being a Soldier that contributes to the team. If they cannot then Walmart is always hiring greeters. We've all made mistakes in our Army career and are better for them, thats how we learn. No one is perfect but you have to accept what's happened and Charlie mike. Remember perception is reality. What people see is what they believe never mind the backstory. If she gets away with this other Soldiers will see it and 1. Never trust her 2. Worse thinks its ok and accepted. Got it? This is bigger than you and her! CPL Santos DO THE RIGHT THING!
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LCpl Stephen Arnold
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This is a big problem. I was in the Army National Guard, and was handed several PT score cards to sign for our AGRs, none of whom took the test in front of me. I refused to sign them, as I pointed out that ordering me to forge an official document, in my eyes, was an unlawful order I would not carry out. I had a similar situation years later when, as the NCO myself, I failed my run by 5 seconds or so. I later discovered that my score had been "Pencil whipped' by a well meaning buddy, but I refused the score and demanded the score I had earned. my Soldiers were more appreciative of my integrity than they were a 5 second gap in time I fixed the following month anyway. Bottom line is, we are only as good a leader as our own personal integrity allows us to be.
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PO1 Rick Serviss
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Talk to the person who passed her.
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