Posted on Aug 16, 2017
CPL Metal Worker
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Apologies for my terrible English. Here is the question broken down and explained in what I hope is in better terms.
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
Edited 8 y ago
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CSM Retired Csm/Soldier For Life
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CPL,
As a CSM I ran into this with some of my FTUS (Full timers). I caught them doctoring their own test one day out back of the unit bldg. Having been given a heads up on this I had only one response, write them up, formally counsel them and pass this own to my JAG for Article 15 actions. Sorry to say that I have no need for anyone Soldier and especially an NCO that has no integrity or inclination to not have the courage to say no to such things. The Soldier's actions of failing to correct the wrong for whatever reason doesn't enter the equation. If she full well knew what was done she should have fixed then and reported it to her Superior. The military has a hard enough in the Reserve and Guard with APFT failures, this is worse. Deal with it or you comprise your integrity as a Leader by not correcting it!

CSM(R) Vincent
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SFC Scott Parkhurst
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Wow, that's a tough call...but only speaking for myself, I would do the honorable thing and just suck it up and say something because that is how I was brought up and that is Honor with the Army...we "shouldn't" lie, cheat nor steal. She has to look at herself every day in the mirror.....
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LTC Robin Gronovius
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I never could understand why people would pencil whip their PT scores, just stay in shape. Even today, after nearly 8 years of retirement, I can still max my push ups and sit ups. While I still run, I would need some time to get my run time down to an acceptable (for me) time. A habit I started in college during ROTC, I would do three sets of 30 push ups and sit ups each morning. I would knock out 30 push ups, roll over and do 30 sit ups and repeat two more sets. Takes about 5 minutes today to do my sets.

When I was in an AC/RC position and let senior officers and NCOs take their own PT tests in small groups, I was amazed at the amount of soldiers that returned with a stack of PT cards, but on a June Saturday morning, were bone dry. At least come back sweaty and look like you just finished a run. I had one major throw a fit when a second group of majors show up bone dry with PT cards. Her group looked like a typical group of soldiers that just finished a PT test. The other group claimed they had just returned from Doughboy Field (the PT field), but she said her group was just there and they did not see the second group. I told that group to try again.

An easy way to double check a PT test is by run time. If a soldier just wants to do the minimum 180 points with 60 in each event, it is easy to stop when the grader calls out the exact number of repetitions required for your push ups or sit ups. Just get to that number and stop. But if your run time is 18:20 (for example) and your PT run time is exactly 18:20, you are extremely good, very lucky or you pencil whipped the score.

If you came in one second late at 18:21, you'd have scored 59 points and failed. If you ran maybe 5-6 seconds faster, you would have scored 61 points, one more than you needed.

Also, I was an avid runner, running about 35-40 miles a week, competing in 5k and 10ks and an occasional half marathon. I knew who was faster than me and who wasn't. Bring me a PT score card that is better than my 2 mile run time and you look like you can't run to your car without getting winded, I'm going to question your results.
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SFC Byron Perry
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Why is someone who is willing to submit a false PT test score to get a promotion careers worth saving?
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SGT J Dent
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Get their ass to the gym and make it ligit.
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LTC Infantry Officer
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I am a retiree, and a former inspector general. I recommend someone contact the inspector general at her current chain of command to investigate this situation. The soldier is definitely at fault if she had knowledge of the false PT test. However, the bigger problem is the NCO who gave her the test. That individual’s career should be stopped in its tracks, and no one in the current chain of command has any authority over that NCO. The IG can reach across multiple installations, conduct a professional investigation, and most importantly document findings in a permanent database. The grader’s career should stop in its tracks. They may not get discharged, but may not receive another promotion when a centralized board conducts a records screening.
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SrA Alan Dirk Scott
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As a soldier as a human being total and rigorous honesty, is critical. no other option.
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SGT Team Leader
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Let's be real she only made it that far because she is a female.
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SSG Michael Taylor
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CPL, best wishes in this. It's a touchy subject.

You aren't allowed to call out a 300+ APFT female when she fails...that's sexist.
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PO1 Donald Vinson
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This is a ongoing situation these days. When I served, I was the Command PT Coordinator and failed personnel consistently. What happened next was to see this person transfer to another unit and get promoted and when I brought this up the higher ups, somehow it got changed in the computer system by Administration. I'm glad I had hard copies (paperwork) that justified my suspicion that someone is changing failures to passing scores. Needles to say I resigned my position at PT Coordinator that I wasn't going to be part of unethical conduct especially when I'm out there busting my ass to make sure I had a good passing score to lead by example. I think this happens in all branches of service. Now that I'm retired, I hope that it get better but I don't think it will change especially if they have a buddy in Admin. Best advice is stay ethical and if you or someone is given a false score, speak up immediately and be true to yourself and your Branch of Service. Thanks for reading my thoughts on this subject.
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CPL Sheila Lewis
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If You see something, say something.
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Bob Smithereens
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Get the women out of the military. Probably the woman got her false PT score by "servicing" the NCO.
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CPL Sheila Lewis
CPL Sheila Lewis
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"Women" is plural...it was one Female who showed no integrity.
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SPC Stanton Hill
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Go to AIG and speak with them. But back it up with solid proof. Then it should be in your favor. This is from an old Army Vet. Been there
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LCpl Kenneth Heath
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If they're willing to lie and cheat to get ahead, why would I care about their military career? They obviously don't.
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PO2 Paul Dempsey
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Duty and honor. She appears possibly to failed with both. The solution. PT in the morning, PT at lunch and PT in the evening until she meets the standard. It's her duty to be fit. Making the wrong into a right would go a long way to restore her honor. You shouldn't have to back into the promotion line or pay line. We all have mirrors I personally like to look into mine and respect the person I see
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SSgt Liam Babington
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A delay in the promotion until she passes the PT test is in order! She can be counseled accordingly! And the matter can be dealt with quietly! I it what I did when I was in! She has to prove herself, period! Sometimes the carrot and stick method works, integrity is built in and will teach her a lesson!
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SGT Lashaunda Perkins
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I feel she needs to retake the apft and the points should be recalculated. She didn't pencil whip the record, her NCO did and I'm sure he instructed her not to say anything which put her in a very awkward situation. Most senior NCO and officers lack integrity and everyone knows that is why they test seperate from lower enlisted soldiers and always pass smh...It starts at the top!!! I know you guys have seen high ranking soldiers walking around fat and sloppy wondering how they are still in and haven't been demoted. So stop the madness
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PO2 Michael Henry
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Edited >1 y ago
Simply put, she should own it and decline the promotion for failing the diagnostic PT and for having a fake score. Admit any knowledge of the fake score if she knows anything. Take whatever ass-chewing or administrative punishment that comes her way and move on. Be ready for the next promotion board.
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CPL Richard Henry
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To say she didnt know her PTSD score was faked is unbelievable an obviously she is in bad shape or she could just take another test so that says to me she does not care about being a leader it's the little things that show what a person is made of just myself how can I expect to lead when I cant do it myself an if she is lying to herself think what she is capable of just a old soldiers opinion
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SFC Nyla Newville
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how can you not know your score. you want me to believe she didn't know 300 wow that's unbelieveable. We use to look up what we needed to pass and kept track of how we were doing.
The damage is done and somebody needs to stand up for what they did.
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