What is the most appropriate way to address someone being given a false PT score, while minimizing the damage to their career?

Don’t get your panties into a wad. Everything has a way of working out to the best result. She got caught down the road! Everything will always come to light, karma is a bitch. She got caught because the system works. Officers have been cheating for years! Not all officers and not every branch, but them assholes have been and will continue to until they get caught.

Chill out. I needed shoulder surgery but i was also picked up for ANCO. I made sure I could pass the PT Test and went on to graduate ANCO. But, my SGL had me down on the Commandant’s List but I hadn’t met the standards for the List because of my shoulder. I immediately made the correction on my exit/final counseling. My mentor, CSM (ret) Thomas Bookman had a motto when we were SSG and SGTs together in Hawaii, and i live by those everyday and have taught them to my four boys.It goes like this, If you lie, you steal you cheat! If you’re willing to do one, you can do all three. Everyone has integrity until you make me question yours

Back in 1990, I was stationed on the USS Austin LPD 4. Which was turned into razor blades in 2006. We had many fat chiefs then. My LPO (lead petty officer) which ran the PT test. Which consisted of the medical and dental department. We would run the flight deck. And every pass through the start finish line. We were given popsicle sticks. And the chiefs would get two just too pass the PT test.

I'd say E4's and below are never wrong. They are only as wrong as we allow them to be, because a soldier was evaluated during an APFT and scored 300 and failed the APFT all together during a diagnostic isn't an indicator of wrong doing. However that SPC took the APFT and was evaluated by a "NON-Commissioned Officer" who in my opinion is the one with no integrity and is subject to Article 90, 91 and 92 of the UCMJ. Let's just say her APFT was recorded under false pretenses for whatever reason. The NCO Corp failed that soldier. Can you prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that she didn't obtain a 300 on her last APFT or is it speculated because she failed to achieve a 300 or even pass the APFT for that matter? It appears that the soldier if in fact was given an erroneous PT score she is learning a valuable lesson and she should be removed from the promotion list. If the NCO that graded her erroneously recorded the information on her PT test, with or without her knowledge. there is the real problem. Soldier's get away with what the NCO Corp allows them to get away with.

The fact that the individual submitted a fraudulent PT score card in order to get promoted is alarming. A few points before rendering my judgement. The military is not the civilian world when it comes to simple matters of fitness and how we administer and document such test. If the individual (regardless of gender) submits a PT scorecard for record knowingly not reflecting the actual scores demonstrates intent to deceive. Second, an individual can not administer the record PT to themselves. There must be unit published dates for record PT test approved by the unit Commander. The unit Commander has personnel appointed to administer such tests. Any other tests submitted when not adhering to such policy and published dates must be in compliance to Dept. of Army regulation/publications. Failure to comply with such regulations leaves the individual and unit vulnerable to noncompliance. I would confront the individual and other individuals who administered the test to discuss the outcome. Once I counseled those involved, I would take them all out and conduct a practice PT test and provide further guidance in terms of remedial training and punitive actions. You mentioned that you did not want to destroy their careers, but you didn't. They did! This episode can be one of a bunch of small episodes that can destroy the integrity of any unit. Lead by example!

This reminds me of a similar situation. Not exactly the same - but in principle very similar. My platoon was taking a PT test. During formation, I called for sick call, AWOL and good balls to fall out to the rear and this E-5 fell out to go to sick call. Before I could ask him, I heard one of the squad members ask him what was wrong, and I flat out heard him reply, that he was going on sick call to avoid taking the PT test which he felt he would fail. I walked up and asked him to confirm what I heard and he admitted that was his reason for sick call. At 0900 formation, I informed the 1SG I was sending this E-5 to the orderly room for him to do whatever he wanted to do with him, but he would not be in my platoon, leading soldiers. I guess fortunately for me, the 1SG not so much supported but didn't push back on my decision. He worked in the orderly room for about a year when he came back and asked if he could come return, which I allowed but on a counseled probation. FYI during the time, he was at the orderly room I set up a remedial PT program and did remedial PT with him after COB, every day. He eventually passed his PT test. But that wasn't the issue at heart, just like the issue with this individual. Yes, the failed PT test needs to be addressed but more importantly, the lack of character and integrity would be all over my radar. You cannot be an effective leader while lacking those two traits. You can't even be a dependable human without those two traits in my opinion. She needs to own up to the falsified score and the fact she failed her PT test. She does not deserve the stripes on her collar. I would find out what the deal was with this other NCO, and I would light his ass up as well. I don't want to let my imagination run on what it was - but playing favorites as a leader is one of the MOST DETRIMENTAL things you can do to your other soldiers. Even the perception of favoritism is a morale killer and that can affect operations. This needs to be nipped in the bud. Your interest should lie in preserving the quality of the NCO Corp and the ranks of the Army. It should lie to the soldiers she could potentially lead with obvious character and leadership flaws. She made this bed, she needs to sleep in it, as does the NCO who falsified her PT score.

1. If you are not involved directly, do not confront directly, you would be basing your discussion on "hearsay". You need to address the issue with your chain.
2. If what you say is true, then the NCO who documented the PT Score has failed their integrity check.
3. The SPC who is up for promotion knew the score was inaccurate and failed to say something, will face their just desserts for not soldiering up to the failure. It will effect her in a negative way. There will be corrective action, but there will be plenty of time to recover and get promoted again.
The grading NCO knows better and should face the consequences of his/her actions.
The best thing to do is get close to a 300 next record PT...then questions won't be raised.

It’s about integrity clearly she has none and I’m wondering about you as well. If you knew about this and did nothing your complicit in that fraud

If the soldier failed a diagnostic APFT she has 30 days to whip herself into shape and then take and pass a for record APFT. Diagnostic APFTs are just that. A tool with which to check a soldiers fitness level at any given time. As for the pencil 300 APFT on her promotion record, she should delay promotion, inform her 1SG of the false score, and ask for her promotion points to be recalculated after the for Record APFT. The actions of a dishonest third party should not be used against the soldier. The soldier always gets the benefit of the doubt. This is the only way I know of her to ensure that her integrity remains intact and that she maintains her credibility in the unit.

I guess my question to you is, would you want to be in a foxhole with her, get wounded and have to rely on her to drag you out and save your life? PT scores present abilities to do what is necessary in combat, period. There is no second chance in combat, nobody to rewrite the rules during engagement. 1. she did not merit her score. 2. Her score was falsely elevated. 3. How do you know this? Your knowledge, no matter its age, should still become known by the upper echelons. If you say nothing, I wish you the best in that foxhole.

I had about the same, only it was a SSG and His SP4 Driver and at was Weapons Qal. I found out that the two of them never got out of the Deuce and a Half, Tell you how I handled it., the SSg. became a SGT and the SP4 became a PFC. Oh and the SSG was on the SFC List at the Time. We were going to make it a Company Grade, but when it went forward the Bn Cdr tore it up and Made it a Field Grade. This is want should Happen to her.

There is


There is one thing to do here...bite the bullet and move on. Life is full of dramatic moments. I was no saint in the Army, but integrity means something. No one is going to go on record and tell you to do the “ wrong thing” on this forum.

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There may be mitigating circumstances that this NCO is not revealing. As a female who has been approached with attempts to be intimidated by men leaders, of which were very unsuccessful, I understand that perhaps this male NCO who penciled her APFT may have been intimidating her in a sexual discriminate manner. He may have raped her or sexually advanced on her, and as many are, she is afraid to say anything. Get the chaplain or a counselor to speak with her and support her. If this is not the case, then find out the real reason why she is so afraid. It's not always as it seems and as cut and dry as some here have made it out to be.

Cpl. Santos, ask yourself this, "Would I want this NCO as my squad leader/section leader"?
She has broken the #1 rule of leadership, "Lead by example"! What kind of an example has she set for you?
Ask yourself, "If she's willing to do this, what else is she capable of doing"? Is she capable of "fixing the numbers" to pass an IG inspection/audit that could possibly affect soldiers being deployed?
One final question, "Where is your integrity"? Are you willing to allow her lack of integrity have a possible life or death impact on a jr. enlisted soldier?
I'm a Marine ('75-'81) and spent five of those years as an NCO, four of them as a Sgt. I had to make some hard decisions, I put a friend in the brig and was a character witness for one of my Marines accused of rape.
Every decision I ever made was based on my integrity and how to best take care of my Marines.

Why does Rallypoint send me these year old issues highlighted in emails as if they're brand new? I wrote a pretty long response before I realized that, in all likelihood, the actual issue is long since resolved for better or worse.

I hope it went well. The long and short of my advice was from your position as a Corporal it's probably most appropriate to discuss the issue privately with your PSG.

Imagine the the damage that will be done later on if that person dosent step up and do the right thing now!

Sounds like another entitlement minority female working the system.

Honestly, the fact that you are ok with some fat body, whose previous "NCO" lied about her PT scores (to cover up the fact that she is actually an unsat piece of shit that can't even pass the PT test) and is ok with knowing her higher ups think she is a better warrior then she ACTUALLY is because when it comes right down to it she just can't hack it.....if you are ok with her being not only an NCO but also SGT....then to be honest you dont belong leading men/women in a big boy military....are you kidding me Cpl?? Fuck her career....she should have thought about that when she sat around getting lazy and fat thinking everything would be handed to her.....if you allow the "handling it to her" to continue, you are the problem.

all i have to say INTEGRITY

Report her to proper authority. That would be her commander. Then it’s out of your hands.

I guess this is my question:

How did she make it through PLDC?

If you know its fake, why do you want to protect the career of said soldier?

Seems to me you don't know that it is fake, and their is any number of reasons why she did not perform up to standard, hell she could be pregnant and her hormones are all out of whack now.

Not your job to wonder what happened at her last command, not your job to ASSUME someone faked her pt score.

Your job is to address this issue that is before you today, and a DIAGNOSTIC pt test is no reason to flag a person who is on the promotion list.

There is more to being a leader than doing 100 push ups. The Army really needs to get that shit through their head. Hell some of the best leaders I ever met scored in the 70th percentile on the PT test. I had a leader once who prided himself on his push up count, used as a "test" when he thought he could prove a point with it, always came out: How many push ups can you do, lets us see. Then he afield the land nav course.

I would rather have a leader that can pass land nav, and not get my ass lost.

Integrity is important too, i get that; But sometimes the rules should be broken, they just don't fit EVERY situation.

Sometimes an NCO should cover for a soldier, even if it means that the rules are technically broken, it happens and A GOOD leader uses that as a leadership tool.

Leadership is not: I can fry this guy, lets do it.