Posted on Aug 16, 2017
CPL Metal Worker
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Apologies for my terrible English. Here is the question broken down and explained in what I hope is in better terms.
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
Edited 8 y ago
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SGM Robert King
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A soldier that falsified a document is done in my eyes. What else are they cheating on. No gray area here.
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1SG Michael Blount
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OH does this has integrity failures written all over it! If this Soldier scored 300 before, and failed now, her 705 card was pencil whipped no doubt. You don't go from the penthouse to the outhouse that quick. I might expect a drop from 300 to 270 or even 250 if it was a bad day, but to fail (that is, less than 180?) - doesn't happen. Now, obviously, the scoring NCO demonstrated a mondo integrity . Your Soldier is, in my opinion, equally guilty of having tacitly accepted the benefit of a 300 APFT which put her at the upper end of the cutting score. NOW - what to do - (1) YOU tell your Soldier your suspicions and relay same to your Chain (2) ask the Soldier what she thinks she should do. The answer should be something like "withdraw from promotion consideration". If you hear that - fine. If not, you're duty bound to report it up the line along with your recommendation. Whatever you do - DO NOT look the other way. These kinds of ACV violations can spin wildly out of control, putting you in the middle for not having stopped the fire before it spread.
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SFC Joseph McCausland
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What puzzles me about this is why did they give her a 300 pt score when they knew she couldn't even pass a diagnostic pt test. I believe a perfect pt score translates to 180 promotion packet points, so did she need that many points to make her MOS promotion cutoff score? She will hold her promotion rank because it was a dislogistic pt test but will be required to participate in a "remedial" (not sure if correct term) pt program and then be required to re-take pt test, if she fails to pass the second one, it could be grounds for separation from the service.
Color me cynical but I believe there is more to this than is on the surface. Why would an NCO risk their career by falsifying a document for a subordinate?
If I were her new station SrNCO I would ask her one question... how does someone get a perfect score of 300 one time and the next time can't even manage a 180?
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Col Professor (Civil Engineering Water; 65% Research, 25%Teaching)
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Seems like she should not be in the military.
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SGT Scott Coughlin
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This has happened more timed than i csn count...especially people coming from Korea...i know an E5 Sgt that could varely pass the APFT while in Korea, but magically just a couple if months later scored a 300...she retired an E7...i promise you this is more common than people are willing to let on...ive seen the same issues with weight
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COL Thom Brooks
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Wow, that has lack of integrity written all over it. Unless the Soldier had been injured, there is no way she could get a 300 on her APFT and then fail a follow-up diagnostic. Direct counseling to figure out how the original score got there (for example, was it actually valid, or did the Soldier think she made a different score, and a different one was transcribed on the record). I then concur with others here that the APFT should be repeated for record, and if she fails it, she will need to be flagged and counseled. I sincerely hope that the Soldier is not the one with the lack of integrity. I don't think any of us wants that type of Soldier in the US Army, let alone in a leadership position.
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1SG Brian Adams
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The NCO that recorded and signed/ dated the PT card is the person responsible. The Soldier in question probably was aware that this may be bogus.
To lighten her load so to speak, let her new chain of command know that the previous NCO is the one who cooked the books. Perhaps a letter of reprimand would be in order for the young Soldier. The NCO that signed the PT card should be severely reprimanded....
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LTC George Morgan
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You hold the responsibility of (a) Counselling her and because you are male, counsel with another female either present of within hearing distance. Counsel not tear down. (B) have her repeat the test. You might want to consider doing the test with her. I.e. Lead from the front and respect her effort. I can assure you; she will respect you and the beneficial effect on her future will be assured. Don't mention it to anyone, I can assure you the info will get to those who need to know. Its what you do: Not what you are seen to do. Good luck, you're doing the right thing!
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CPO Boatswain's Mate
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The corruption of the NCO and she aside, I don't understand the issue here. She failed at the fitness standard. Did this nullify her advancement? If so, she's the one that screwed herself.
An issue would arise if she was advanced despite failing the fitness standard.
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SGT Christy Waterhouse
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When I entered the military, jobs that had only been available to men were now open to women enlisting. I see many individuals in this scenario that should be counselled. First the NCO in charge of administering this test. The soldier involved knew exactly what she needed to do to pass the test. I made SGT in three years after entering the Military. Before even going before the board I knew exactly what was expected of me. The people that were present at the time the test was administered. This is a sad day when pride is not taken into consideration of the accomplishment. As a female Veteran I am saddened to hear that a female soldier would go along with this deception to benefit her career. It only shows her lack of strength and integrity. If this is the kind of soldier/person she is it won't take long before her deception is blatantly revealed.
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