Posted on Aug 16, 2017
CPL Metal Worker
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Apologies for my terrible English. Here is the question broken down and explained in what I hope is in better terms.
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
Edited 8 y ago
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1SG James Magsayo
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The bottom line is there is a standard and it obviously was not met. If there are questions regarding the standard, one need only consult their HCoC or the proper regulations.
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Cpl Ray Frigerio
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You'll have to appeal to her to do the right thing and have it reassessed. We're not talking about a few points here ; the score is too high ( perfect ) vs actual failing . THAT is no minor discrepancy and it matters especially in the field . Your English is excellent btw , you must be a smart, hard working soldier , we need more bilingual folks .
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PV2 Glen Lewis
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There is an old saying that fits what I have perfectly; Honestly is the best policy,
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SSG Shawn Mcfadden
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Regardless of the reason, that previous PT Test was pencil-whipped. If she knew about this, she, and that NCO who fudged the score are FUCKED!!!! The only way I see this NOT being pursued, and since you said this was a diagnostic, is she takes another PT test and passes it. If she fails THAT ONE, BOTH OF THEM ARE FUCKED!!!
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SSG Lloyd Price
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The OP is not clear on how it's "known" that the soldier's previous PT test was falsified. As I said earlier, it's either known, or it's suspected and this young leader, a CPL, (over a newly promoted Sergeant?, not sure how that works) Should deal with what is in front of himself, and not on suspicions. This soldier failed an APFT, deal with that. If the soldier admitted to the falsified PT Test, deal with that.
If the OP is making an assumption of wrong-doing then he is making a terrible mistake. There are many reasons a soldier can have a bad PT Test. All of you senior leaders should have recognized this problem yet few have. I commend those who are thinking right, and although I do not challenge the ethics of you others, I will throw down my BS card on your ill-considered rush to urge an inquisition without specific proof of wrong-doing. Which one of you are going to ask "How specifically, do you know the PT Test was falsified?"
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SFC Medical Laboratory Specialist
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If there was suspicion before she pcs’s, it should have been dealt with then. Now that she has moved on, she can either try to hide behind the lie(which will eventually come to light) or she can fess up now and deal with the consequences. I honestly have no respect for Soldiers who will do thing in their own best interest and are not what we need leading troops, either in garrison or deployments.
If her immediate supervisors knew their Soldier, they would have notice the discrepancy after the 300 and addressed it with the Soldier along with the chain of command. I feel this goes a little deeper than one Soldier.
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LtCol Paul Bowen
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The violation of the UCMJ is “False Official Statement” and Art. 134 “Conduct contrary to the Good Order & Discipline of the Armed Forces”.

This unqualified service member is preventing another qualified member from promotions and assignments of greater responsibility and leadership.

Discharge the miscreant.
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SSG Unit Supply Specialist
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I was told by a commander once to not come to the table without some sort of solution to the problem. First of all, an NCO should be forthcoming. If you let a problem be, it only gets bigger. She should at least say what happened, and be willing to take another PT test on the spot. And seriously, don't make a mountain out of a diagnostic, you can take several of those in any given year. So tell her to be honest, and be willing to take another. If she loses rank, she still has integrity. Integrity and honesty will guide her right back to being an NCO.
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Col Colonel, Chief Nurse
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She just needs to buckle down, get back in the groove and pass the test and accept the promotion. She'll go nowhere until she passed. That NCO did her no favor by falseling the report
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PO2 Ed Taylor
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iF THE PT SCORE WAS A FRAUD THEN THERE ARE TWO INDIVIDUALS THAT COMMITTED THIS FRAUD. IF THE PERFORMANCE HAS BEEN NOTE WORTHY AND GOOD A POSSIBLE DO OVER TO THE PT AND DEMOTION. FRAUD IS NOT TOLERATED IN THE MILITARY, IF YOU WOULD LIE ABOUT ONE THING WHAT ELSE ARE YOU CAPABLE OF BEING DECEPTIVE ABOUT AND HOW FAR ARE YOU WILLING TO GO WITH THIS DECEPTION. TRUTH HONOR COURAGE DEDICATION. THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE WITHIN A SOLDIER NO MATTER WHAT BRANCH THEY SERVE. THE CHAIN OF COMMAND NEEDS TO BE INVOLVED FOR THIS REASON IT IS THE DUTY OF ALL IN THE CHAIN TO REPORT INCIDENTS. AND ANY ALONG THAT CHAIN CAN SAY YEA OR NAY.
I AM 72 NOW AND THIS IS STILL MY MILITARY ALSO. REMEMBER WE WERE OR STILL ARE ( GI"S) GENERAL ISSUE RUES AND TRUST ARE WHAT MAKE A UNIT GREAT, AND IT ALL STARTS WITH AN INDIVIDUAL.
ET PO2, MR3 CMBT ENG, SGT, PATHFINDER
JUST MY OPINION
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SPC Nancy Greene
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Do any of these soldiers realize “Falsification of a Government Document” is a Federal Offense punishable via UCMJ and possible Federal indictments. As a veteran who was responsible for publishing Promotion Orders for Enlisted Personnel; there is documentation regarding the PT score. I strongly suggest the soldier in question come clean now before this turns into an avalanche. I suggest retaking the PT test and recalculate the promotion points using the new score. If the REAL score doesn’t meet the ‘cut-off scores, then no promotion. I would also recommend an Article 15 for ‘conduct unbecoming’. This seems to me to be the best way to resolve the issue with the least amount of damage to ANYONE’S career. This falsification WILL be discovered if this soldier plans to stay in the Army. Better to come clean now as an E-4, than being court marshaled at a higher rank.
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CH (CPT) Battalion Chaplain
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Integrity in the APFT is as important as integrity in everything we as Army soldiers do as we live and uphold the seven Army values. As a chaplain, I have always felt it extremely important to be fit and score high on the APFT, because any lack of physical readiness endangers far more than myself (as a non-combatant), and as an officer in his early 50's, I also feel a great responsibility to exemplify physical readiness. I haven't scored below 270 in a long time--because I am committed to working hard at remaining fit. In fact, I am very much looking forward to the ACFT because it eliminates the age and gender allowances. "I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself." The thought that there is any soldier serving who had to falsify records (or was complicit in the act) to pass or score high on the APFT, especially to be promoted in the NCO Corps, goes against everything we stand for.
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SFC Scott Higgins
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CPL Santos, the issue here is integrity. She has lost hers. Do not lose yours.
She would have to have known about the bogus score - she could have said something to the company first sergeant after the test, when she turned in her packet for promotion, at the annual review of her packet. There is nothing here to suggest her actions were self-serving and dishonest. Worse, her actions caused a more deserving soldier to miss out on a promotion they deserved. Do not follow her, keep your integrity and speak up.
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SGT Thomas Price
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I guess the real question is, how can you spend enough time in the military to gain NCO rank and still fail a PT test? I never understood how people could fail those things. Its not an Olympic tryout.
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SN Jay Perry
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Not having to deal with PT tests (small ships usually do the PT test at the same time), I would give the person a fixed time to pass the test with AT LEAST that score she 'earned' before. I would counsel that service member that immediately after failing that test the second time I would walk them up the chain of command and charge them with PERJURY (lying on am official document(s)).
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SSG Bfv Section Leader
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A diagnostic after PCS'ing to a new unit? Sounds like this Soldier didn't do PT while on leave.
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SGT Luis San Roman Jr
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Things must've greatly changed since I retired. When a diagnostic APFT was given, unless you stated you wanted it that you wanted it to be a RECORD APFT before you started then regardless of what you scored, it remained just that...a diagnostic and could NOT be used for points. So according to your initial statement her S1 file should've caught that when they audited her file for points and she never shouldve been promoted when the cutoff scores came out.
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CW2 AH-64E Pilot
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I mean... I personally went form a 297 to a fail in less than 6 months. It is very possible.
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SPC Brad Pratt
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It’s a situation that has gone on for decades. I’ve seen pencil pushing SFC that had three chins that somehow passed the tape test every time.
Let’s not forget the pen hole expert marksman. At the paper (not pop up targets) weapons range.
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
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I had a similar incident, while being the unit APFT nco, an 06 asked me to sign off a pt score, that I knew to be impossible so this sm could attend bnoc and get promoted, I refused explaining why, so the 06 signed it, then complained to the CO, long story short the nco failed Pt at bnoc and I got relieved and nothing happened to the sm or 06
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