What you know or who you know?

It is definitely who you know, but not just for government jobs. In the current hiring environment, many managers have had to wait months to even get permission to conduct a search and the HR managers will be slammed with dozens if not a hundred applicants. In that mess, that manager has already figured out exactly who he/she wants to hire. He/she will specifically ask HR for the resume(s) of the people he/she has already talked to about the position. Other people may or may not even be interviewed, but they most certainly do not have an equal shot of at the job regardless of qualifications.

This is NOT saying that the people the manager wants to hire are unqualified (for the moment let's set aside nepotism and the like). He/she knows the desired candidates are qualified and, knowing that he/she will likely be stuck with their choice for years, will prefer to go with someone who is already seen as being a good fit.

I work for a DoD contracting company. I was hired for my first position sight unseen by the company. My next position, I worked with the husbands of two of the five team members. And in my newest position, I was hand-picked by the division chief because I had done good work for him previously; that position was "searched" but no one was interviewed because I already had the job. I would say that this is the range of possibilities and the hardest to get is that foot-in-the-door position.

In the three years I have been working in these areas, only a handful of DoD CIV positions have come open and 100% of the ones I knew about were filled by people well known to the hiring manager either because they were a relative of someone already working there (that's wrong, but it's the truth) or they were already working there in a different capacity. No DoD CIV jobs that I observed went to outsiders who just happened to apply through USAJobs.

For your reference, being an ethnic minority, female, vet with a disability rating, a masters degree, experience managing multi-million dollar government projects and hundreds of personnel DID NOT HELP me get a job...initially. I had to accept a low paying clerical job and climb up from that point. I feel very certain that if I had not accepted that initial position and come to know the people that I have, I would not have even been interviewed for my new position.

(FYI: my contracting company is HQ'd in Chantilly, VA; I'm happy to try to help you get a foot in the door if you are interested.)

Nepotism is a sad but true fact. Our son is in the SEAP program, which is almost impossible to get into (when I ran it in Bethesda, we'd have 1000 applicants and make 4-5 selections). He's in for the summer because I know people at USACEHR (well, he's also a good student, but knowing people is the main reason). Alumni from Ivy League schools can basically get their kids in just by being alumns. GW Bush was a C-grade student and went to Yale. I promise that VERY few other C-students were admitted that year.

With that said, I have no shame in admitting that I'll use any/all of my connections to benefit my kids. It's a fact of life.

It's who knows YOU :)

PO1 Allen Y. I would say that to some degree your feelings are correct. Personal knowledge can get you in the door. I can speak to my agency, US Marshals, because for a time, I was involved in hiring process. It didn't matter if you and I were best pals-all that would have gotten you was notice that we were going to be hiring. You had to jump through the hoops like everyone else.

Now, after hire, who you know matters, as does your reputation. They won't get you promoted at face value, but the decision makers will make inquiries, and information is king: if you suck and have bad reputation, they will find out, and you will not likely promote or move where you would like.

I would say this, to anyone looking to go Federal for a job, be patient and present the best portrait that you can. Network if possible, and be persistent.

PO1 Young......It is who you know whether if it's Federal or Pirate Industry, people give me the impression that they are threaten by your military experience from my observation. I remember this one guy needed a Forklift Instructor for his business, I had presented to him my military credentials, he looked disappointed after reviewing my credentials, then gave me a weak excuse why he couldn't hire me at that particular time.

It is an unwritten, for lack of a better term, "practice", in government as well as the civilian side. I'm right with MAJ (Join to see), everyone else takes advantage of what they can, so I'd also do the same.

Back in the day, working at supermarkets here in RI was THE part time job to have - better pay, bennies, pd vaca, union, etc. that most other retail places couldn't come close to. Even with my dad working at one such company, Almacs (blood relatives at that time could not work in the same store) who only hired age 16+, I had to be on a waiting list at 15 and was a month shy of 17 before I got my foot in the door - shagging carriages and cleaning bathrooms.

I would say that it always helps out some if the employer's human resource manager or other company personnel know you. However, I would still hope that the requirements for the position is really the deciding factor. Sometimes reputation from past work assignments gets you in the door too. They know how your work ethics were then you may just landed a good paying job. It may or may not work out always in your benefit.

I came into federal service (FAA )three years after retirement becuase I chose to have Management Civil Major Airline Experience first.

I had three job offers within 6 months of separating from the Navy. Two were phone interviews and another was an in person interview in Houston. One interview for a job in Colorado was the result of having a friend at NORTHCOM. The job I have now, I, too, was hired, sight unseen. I love the job but it is as a contractor and the stability is uncertain at best. However, this is the world that we live in, but adapting and overcoming is something that we service members do better than any other group.

This also borders on some other comments I've been making - the SCOTUS ruled that race-based selection to colleges isn't legal. However, we still have all kinds of "affirmative action" based upon alumni status and who you know. Not to say that I'm a believer in race based decisions (I had friends from Africa who were white be told they couldn't check "african american" on their applications, even though they're more "african american" than many from other countries who happen to have darker pigment), but there's a level of hypocrisy here that shouldn't be ignored.