Posted on Mar 18, 2016
When is it acceptable to take away from the family?
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Service Members,
I am saying this with a humble heart because I have a high respect for every service member that served befiore me, regardless of rank or position.
I left recruiting duty in June of 2012 and reported to Ft Campbell on July of 2012 to become a squad leader. I have loved the job since I have taken my position. When I first arrived, my 82nd mentality kickjed over what I remembered from 3 years prior, but there were a lot of changes during the time I was on recruiting duty.
Obviously a single Soldier will not have time taken away from a family as a married Soldier will, therefore we fall into the argument.
I aask this question as an ope argument, when does it seem "justified" to take time awy from the family because of training and tasks. I ask this because I've noticed that a majority of posts or responses are made by E-6 or below and I can assume that a majority of the NCO's o=in the Army now want to retire and become a leader to forms the unit into what the Army wants. Myself, the family is #1 and the Army is #2, that changed when I had nmy first child, regardless of what my DS taught me, saying that the Army is #1, and family is #2.
In a long term of my career I noticed that I did not make good decisions in my first 4 years; I didn't go to college, I didn't take correspondence courses, and I didn't study for any board. In the Army now, it is important to do all of thesed things, becasuse the regulations state it.
I would have all of my Soldiers completing a college class online now but I found it impossible to perform myself.
When can we get Soldiers to perform the tasks needed by the Army, such as college or boards if we are constantly being run dry by details and useless training?
I am saying this with a humble heart because I have a high respect for every service member that served befiore me, regardless of rank or position.
I left recruiting duty in June of 2012 and reported to Ft Campbell on July of 2012 to become a squad leader. I have loved the job since I have taken my position. When I first arrived, my 82nd mentality kickjed over what I remembered from 3 years prior, but there were a lot of changes during the time I was on recruiting duty.
Obviously a single Soldier will not have time taken away from a family as a married Soldier will, therefore we fall into the argument.
I aask this question as an ope argument, when does it seem "justified" to take time awy from the family because of training and tasks. I ask this because I've noticed that a majority of posts or responses are made by E-6 or below and I can assume that a majority of the NCO's o=in the Army now want to retire and become a leader to forms the unit into what the Army wants. Myself, the family is #1 and the Army is #2, that changed when I had nmy first child, regardless of what my DS taught me, saying that the Army is #1, and family is #2.
In a long term of my career I noticed that I did not make good decisions in my first 4 years; I didn't go to college, I didn't take correspondence courses, and I didn't study for any board. In the Army now, it is important to do all of thesed things, becasuse the regulations state it.
I would have all of my Soldiers completing a college class online now but I found it impossible to perform myself.
When can we get Soldiers to perform the tasks needed by the Army, such as college or boards if we are constantly being run dry by details and useless training?
Off Duty
College
Family
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 26
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It's interesting that you bring this question up. This is a universal battle in all sectors of life (civilian or military). Here are my thoughts based on having been a squadron and group commander in the Air Force, and being in the private sector:
1) There are two things you don't want to mess with if you want your troops/employees to support you - their money and their family (I have a military story on this if you want to hear it later)
2) There are those in the military and private sector who will want you to sacrifice family for the job, although they tend to personally benefit off your sacrifice (particularly true in the private sector - too many career climbers)
3) In the end of your career (or life) I suspect you won't say to yourself "I should have gone to work more." Rather, you will probably say "I should have spent more time with my kids/spouse/family"
4) In the military, there will be times when you have to disrupt someone's family because duty calls - that is just the nature of the beast. But, as long as they understand their obligation, it will be okay.
5) What we all do in life is not because of the job, it's generally for others like our family. The job is a means to have a fulfilling life, not an end in itself.
Just my humble opinion.
1) There are two things you don't want to mess with if you want your troops/employees to support you - their money and their family (I have a military story on this if you want to hear it later)
2) There are those in the military and private sector who will want you to sacrifice family for the job, although they tend to personally benefit off your sacrifice (particularly true in the private sector - too many career climbers)
3) In the end of your career (or life) I suspect you won't say to yourself "I should have gone to work more." Rather, you will probably say "I should have spent more time with my kids/spouse/family"
4) In the military, there will be times when you have to disrupt someone's family because duty calls - that is just the nature of the beast. But, as long as they understand their obligation, it will be okay.
5) What we all do in life is not because of the job, it's generally for others like our family. The job is a means to have a fulfilling life, not an end in itself.
Just my humble opinion.
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SFC (Join to see)
Sir,
I agree with your comment, and I am sad to watch many Soldiers leave the Army saying the words: "screw this place, I'm going to college." Most often, we hear back from them later on saying how they want to get back in because college was harder than they thought and they miss the steady paycheck.
I wish there was a program that allowed every Soldier to be placed in a "transition preparation" unit for 3 months, so they can get a mouthful of the civilian world.
At the same time, I know that if I was a civilian that I would work overtime to get caught up on bills or to make some extra money for Christmas. In this it would equally take away from my time with the family, this is my crossroads.
Maybe it's the freedom of choice that discourages me and service members in general? I just think that certain common sense factors always need to be in play, and sometimes it feels as though the strategic level of the force forgets about the guys who want to watch their child's first steps. But they forget about that while they are attending their child's college graduation.
Thank you for your time,
V/R,
SSG Allenbrand
I agree with your comment, and I am sad to watch many Soldiers leave the Army saying the words: "screw this place, I'm going to college." Most often, we hear back from them later on saying how they want to get back in because college was harder than they thought and they miss the steady paycheck.
I wish there was a program that allowed every Soldier to be placed in a "transition preparation" unit for 3 months, so they can get a mouthful of the civilian world.
At the same time, I know that if I was a civilian that I would work overtime to get caught up on bills or to make some extra money for Christmas. In this it would equally take away from my time with the family, this is my crossroads.
Maybe it's the freedom of choice that discourages me and service members in general? I just think that certain common sense factors always need to be in play, and sometimes it feels as though the strategic level of the force forgets about the guys who want to watch their child's first steps. But they forget about that while they are attending their child's college graduation.
Thank you for your time,
V/R,
SSG Allenbrand
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Lt Col Timothy Parker, DBA
SFC (Join to see) - Well said and heart-felt. Thanks for taking the time to send it. I do think the Army (or any of the services in general) has to take the strategic role in mind first - the needs fo the Army/Air Force comes first as the say. Otherwise, it may get difficult to manage who to send to fight. That said, take pride in that you serve a noble and greater cause, much more than any civilian entity - the defense of your country and the values it stands for. I know that sounds a bit hokey, but you won't get that sense of duty with any organization outside the military.
Being in the civilian sector does give you more say in what you do and when you do it. The choices are yours. Sometimes you have to work those extra hours/days to make the money you want (or in many cases, you get pressured to give up some family time for the "good" of the company - I could go on for days about this topic). Eventually, you will leave the Army and have to face these decisions anyway. So, prepare as best you can while you are in the Army, plan ahead for your civilian role (find a civilian network/industry group in the career field you want, and find a mentor in that field that can guide you, well before leaving). Best of luck with it. You do seem to have your priorities right - family first. That matters.
Kind regards
Being in the civilian sector does give you more say in what you do and when you do it. The choices are yours. Sometimes you have to work those extra hours/days to make the money you want (or in many cases, you get pressured to give up some family time for the "good" of the company - I could go on for days about this topic). Eventually, you will leave the Army and have to face these decisions anyway. So, prepare as best you can while you are in the Army, plan ahead for your civilian role (find a civilian network/industry group in the career field you want, and find a mentor in that field that can guide you, well before leaving). Best of luck with it. You do seem to have your priorities right - family first. That matters.
Kind regards
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PO2 Mark Williams
I manage a Police IT department with 6 of the best IT people in the whole county working for me. I run my shop on a families first basis, and everyone knows if they need a little time to take care of a personal need like a Doctor's appointment or picking up a sick kid from school it's no questions asked....go do it. The end result is I have a group of people who will bust their asses because they WANT to be there and are proud of what they do. Families and people first is the best policy, unless you like running a shop by yourself (civilian sector) or a hell-scape of people (military) who hate you and your whole command or unit and will do things like "rim" your coffee cup behind your back. Old Navy people know what the coffee cup thing means. Caring for your people avoids the bad things and is better for your mission and everyone concerned.
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You will find these same pressures in civilian life if you want to get ahead in your career. If your career comes first your family will suffer; if your family comes first your career will suffer. The choice is yours.
The difference between the military and civilian life is that as a civilian you can quit your job at any time and find another one if your current job doesn't suit you - but you should have the next job already lined up before you do that. The family that comes first for you still needs for you to provide for them, and you cannot do that without a job.
If there is a way to have a good career while you put your family first I have never seen it in my 72 years. Good luck in whatever choice you make.
The difference between the military and civilian life is that as a civilian you can quit your job at any time and find another one if your current job doesn't suit you - but you should have the next job already lined up before you do that. The family that comes first for you still needs for you to provide for them, and you cannot do that without a job.
If there is a way to have a good career while you put your family first I have never seen it in my 72 years. Good luck in whatever choice you make.
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PO3 Dennis Sutton
A home business will do all of that. Would like to talk to anyone that wanting to change.
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MSgt John McGowan
You hit the nail on the head. I am 77 and look back and what you said is so true. But there was a period that if you had a job you were almost forced to keep it. Jobs were in short supply. I was able to get a job I liked and worked over 18 years and never missed a hour of pay. In the same turn I had to work sometimes and miss family events.
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God, Family, Country. Its the organization that needs to prioritize the time it has between training, administration and the mission, not the soldier. Single soldier or family soldier it makes no difference. Single soldiers shouldn't have to work harder to make up for family time. Its no different than the non smokers having to do the smokers work while they are taking a smoke break every fifteen minutes. Its just not right or fair.
Before I retired I would see this time and time again. It started with my first duty station and was still going on 25 years later. The command would need something and some hard charging soldier would step up and sacrifice his own time to get the mission done. He/she would do this time and time again going way beyond what he was required to do, and what others did. Then one day for whatever reason the soldier would no longer be able to constantly make this extraordinary effort or sacrifice and suddenly, even though the soldier was now doing the same work everybody else had been doing he was thought of as a slug and would receive unfavorable treatment.
The soldier was blamed for not being able to step up anymore. The first time I saw this I was a PVT at Ft Riley. The Hero of the unit got a permanent leg injury at Ranger training and was no longer able to charge as hard as he could before. Suddenly he was a slug. If it was obvious to me as a brand new PVT why wasn't it so obvious to the leadership. Nothing ever changed. For 25 years the soldiers would volunteer to clean the windows for free, then when suddenly the soldiers could no longer clean the windows for free instead of saying thank you for cleaning the windows for free for all these years the soldier would be treated badly for no longer cleaning the windows for free.
This is a considerable leadership failure whether in the military or civilian world.
So to sum it all up, its never acceptable to take family time from a soldier. Sometimes it might be required, but its never acceptable and it shows a lack of prioritization and/or prior planning on the part of the leadership to have prevented it.
Before I retired I would see this time and time again. It started with my first duty station and was still going on 25 years later. The command would need something and some hard charging soldier would step up and sacrifice his own time to get the mission done. He/she would do this time and time again going way beyond what he was required to do, and what others did. Then one day for whatever reason the soldier would no longer be able to constantly make this extraordinary effort or sacrifice and suddenly, even though the soldier was now doing the same work everybody else had been doing he was thought of as a slug and would receive unfavorable treatment.
The soldier was blamed for not being able to step up anymore. The first time I saw this I was a PVT at Ft Riley. The Hero of the unit got a permanent leg injury at Ranger training and was no longer able to charge as hard as he could before. Suddenly he was a slug. If it was obvious to me as a brand new PVT why wasn't it so obvious to the leadership. Nothing ever changed. For 25 years the soldiers would volunteer to clean the windows for free, then when suddenly the soldiers could no longer clean the windows for free instead of saying thank you for cleaning the windows for free for all these years the soldier would be treated badly for no longer cleaning the windows for free.
This is a considerable leadership failure whether in the military or civilian world.
So to sum it all up, its never acceptable to take family time from a soldier. Sometimes it might be required, but its never acceptable and it shows a lack of prioritization and/or prior planning on the part of the leadership to have prevented it.
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SPC (Join to see)
PO1 Kevin Risner - This is the very reason why I am bidding the Army farewell. Recent changes to the promotion system on the enlisted side it is even more important to complete college courses. However my work load has remained a constant overbearing load while other Soldiers sit around talking about what is for dinner or what movie they are going to see after work. When myself and another Soldier brought it up to our OIC on how we seemed to be the only two working on the weekends, they justified it as grooming us for leadership. You know, those leadership positions we will never obtain because we aren't getting the promotion points we need.
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PO1 Kevin Risner
SPC (Join to see) - It is unfortunate that a good soldier decides to leave the Army for your reasons. I understand how you feel though.
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SSG Leonard J W.
CW3 Stephen Mills, outstanding answer, sir! No one should be scrambling about at the last minute trying to get things done. 90% of a good mission is in the planning, and 10% is in the execution. Failure to plan is planning to fail!
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SFC (Join to see)
SPC Raymond, if you do decide to stay in, please consider attending Post University. I earned 2 degree's in 4 years.
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