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I still remember those days doing rifle qualification. Kids these days are spoiled with the ACOGs and CCOs. Being a former Soldier who has done both in my career. The optics make it much easier. Who else can remember those iron sight days?
Humor
Marksmanship
Shooting (Sport)
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 48
15
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In all seriousness the military's decision to no longer require qualifications on Iron sights is a liability (I am particularly disappointed in my own branch over this). Maybe, just maybe, with rugged enough optics you could allow qualifications on optics at longer ranges with Irons being mandatory for anything 200 yards or less. (Not because Irons cant be used effectively out to 500M but because if your optics go down in real combat you're most likely to be making shots at 200 or less until you can get back to a FOB for a new optic.)
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LCpl Charlie Liverman Jr
Um, I know I can hit a man size target with open sights at 500 yards. That's how Marines qualified when I was in.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
LCpl Charlie Liverman Jr - And records indicate in combat that almost no one can do the same.
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Rain, loop sling, iron sights... that was me two weeks ago.
I still shot 35.
Bitter at that 100m that didn't want to fall after two rounds expended.
I still shot 35.
Bitter at that 100m that didn't want to fall after two rounds expended.
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Graduated from Basic at Fort Sill on August 21st this year. We shot CCOs one day for familiarization and did our night fire with them. We qualified with M4s or M16s and Iron Sights. I much prefer the Irons to the optics.
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Training with optics should be at a unit level ONLY!!. The rifle range is for learning and refreshing yourself with the fundamentals of marksmanship. The rifle range should be iron sight from BZO line all the way to the 500 line.
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It's not just the old days. In the past 3 years of qualification, I've zero'ed and qualified with an M16A2 and the iron sights. No CCOs, no ACOGs.
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MSG John Wirts
M1 Carbine with infra-red night scope, the scope with light and battery weighed more then the weapon with loaded magazine.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
That would be the M-3 carbine. Most I saw used the M-2 Carbine. ARVN had them and also 5th Gp Mike Forces. That is why today's carbine is the M-4.
Carbine, Cal .30, M3
M2 with mounting (T3 mount) for an early active (infrared) night vision sight.
About 3,000 produced.
Three versions of night sight (M1, M2, M3)
Original Korean War era USMC M3 Night Vision Scope
The M3 carbine was an M2 carbine fitted with a mount designed to accept an infrared sight for use at night. It was initially used with the M1 sniperscope, and an active infrared sight, and saw action in 1945 with the Army during the invasion of Okinawa. Before the M3 carbine and M1 sniperscope were type-classified, they were known as the T3 and T120, respectively. The system continued to be developed, and by the time of the Korean War, the M3 carbine was used with the M3 sniperscope.
The M2 sniper scope extended the effective nighttime range of the M3 carbine to 100 yards. In the later stages of the Korean War, an improved version of the M3 carbine, with a revised mount, a forward pistol grip, and a new M3 sniperscope design was used in the latter stages of Korea and briefly in Vietnam. The M3 sniperscope had a large active infrared spotlight mounted on top of the scope body itself, allowing use in the prone position. The revised M3/M3 had an effective range of around 125 yards.[24] Eventually, the M3 carbine and its M3 sniperscope would be superseded by passive-design night vision scopes with extended visible ranges; the improved scopes in turn required the use of rifle-caliber weapons with flatter trajectories and increased hit probability.
Carbine, Cal .30, M3
M2 with mounting (T3 mount) for an early active (infrared) night vision sight.
About 3,000 produced.
Three versions of night sight (M1, M2, M3)
Original Korean War era USMC M3 Night Vision Scope
The M3 carbine was an M2 carbine fitted with a mount designed to accept an infrared sight for use at night. It was initially used with the M1 sniperscope, and an active infrared sight, and saw action in 1945 with the Army during the invasion of Okinawa. Before the M3 carbine and M1 sniperscope were type-classified, they were known as the T3 and T120, respectively. The system continued to be developed, and by the time of the Korean War, the M3 carbine was used with the M3 sniperscope.
The M2 sniper scope extended the effective nighttime range of the M3 carbine to 100 yards. In the later stages of the Korean War, an improved version of the M3 carbine, with a revised mount, a forward pistol grip, and a new M3 sniperscope design was used in the latter stages of Korea and briefly in Vietnam. The M3 sniperscope had a large active infrared spotlight mounted on top of the scope body itself, allowing use in the prone position. The revised M3/M3 had an effective range of around 125 yards.[24] Eventually, the M3 carbine and its M3 sniperscope would be superseded by passive-design night vision scopes with extended visible ranges; the improved scopes in turn required the use of rifle-caliber weapons with flatter trajectories and increased hit probability.
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I just graduated in 2014. Never blessed with ACOGS. Other company's did. Our DS's thought that was cheating lol. Good times good times. Iron sights all the way. 35/40
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SSG (Join to see)
I have plenty of unused ones. The best technique I use with my soldiers on understanding the settings is using their own fingers to mimic front and rear site, and what happens when they move the settings, reminding them that for the front site is one click, and rear is 2 for each square....it works very well, every time.
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SFC John Birks, I never shot anything but iron sights. From the M-14 to the AR-15, was nothing but iron sights. Are you saying the rifle qualifications are with scopes mounted on the rifles? They should be trained with both sights in case they ever need to use a weapon without optics. IMHO.
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