Posted on Aug 15, 2014
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Our WWII Veteran ranks are very thin, and we are losing many Korean War Veterans now. Vietnam Veterans are in their upper 60s or 70s already. My point is, our stories and our history is shared across the generations in lodges and halls across the country, but fewer Veterans are joining these organizations post military. Who will tell their stories when they are all gone....who will tell our stories? Curious to others opinions on this subject! Thanks in advance! AATW!
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 238
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This is one thing that I think about constantly. I am 30 years old and the Commander of my local American Legion Post. I've only been it a year, and before I joined, the average age of membership was near 80! I dramatically lessened it, being 28 when I joined.
The "problem" stems from several places.
#1: People getting the stigmata to and from a younger generation. VFWs and American Legions are notorious for having a Canteena. Older Vets tend to not welcome newer Vets because they didn't go through the same thing the elders did. I am the same way. My friendship allegiances are The Platoon I served with, the company, the battalion, then everyone else. I get that.
It also comes from the energy of the younger generations. When I go to a bar or canteena, I would prefer to be up and moving while an older generation prefers to stay seated and lower the music volume.
#2: Number 2 coincides with the end of #1. People run 5K races (and higher) and way more active than the older generations. I'm not saying that the older generations couldn't do it, but more often they prefer to not, and they won't participate from the sidelines either. The generations are too different in physique.
#3: There are so many (too many) other groups geared to today's generation of warrior class. Wounded Warriors and IAVA are just a few Veteran geared programs, as well as many different obstacle course and cohesion programs, such as Tough Mudder, Spartan Race, Limit of Advance, and many, many more. Any opportunist can see that the generational gap and let's face it, it's all in advertising. Who wouldn't want to join a group who are named after the campaigns that they participated in?
Reasons #1 and #2 make a good influence opportunity and set up reason #3. The CEOs, owners, founders, whoever gain influence at the very least, money at the most. I'm not saying that anyone is out for the money, but the opportunity is there.
There are more reasons why this is happening, and I believe it is all of our responsibilities to try and bridge this gap.
The "problem" stems from several places.
#1: People getting the stigmata to and from a younger generation. VFWs and American Legions are notorious for having a Canteena. Older Vets tend to not welcome newer Vets because they didn't go through the same thing the elders did. I am the same way. My friendship allegiances are The Platoon I served with, the company, the battalion, then everyone else. I get that.
It also comes from the energy of the younger generations. When I go to a bar or canteena, I would prefer to be up and moving while an older generation prefers to stay seated and lower the music volume.
#2: Number 2 coincides with the end of #1. People run 5K races (and higher) and way more active than the older generations. I'm not saying that the older generations couldn't do it, but more often they prefer to not, and they won't participate from the sidelines either. The generations are too different in physique.
#3: There are so many (too many) other groups geared to today's generation of warrior class. Wounded Warriors and IAVA are just a few Veteran geared programs, as well as many different obstacle course and cohesion programs, such as Tough Mudder, Spartan Race, Limit of Advance, and many, many more. Any opportunist can see that the generational gap and let's face it, it's all in advertising. Who wouldn't want to join a group who are named after the campaigns that they participated in?
Reasons #1 and #2 make a good influence opportunity and set up reason #3. The CEOs, owners, founders, whoever gain influence at the very least, money at the most. I'm not saying that anyone is out for the money, but the opportunity is there.
There are more reasons why this is happening, and I believe it is all of our responsibilities to try and bridge this gap.
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SGT James Elphick
I think you are onto something in #3. My local American Legion and VFW don't even have functional websites.
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GySgt James Marchinke
IF WE KEEP CREATING NEW ORGANIZATIONS FOR OUR VETERANS OUR VOICES ARE NOT AS LOUD WHEN WE ADDRESS CONGRESS WITH OUR CONCEARNS
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SGT James Elphick - I agree that should be done, Our Legion has a Web site and also a Facebook Page plus We add items to another local FB Page. We also have a connection with the local newspaper to put items out on our activities and even recruiting pitches. Extra exposure helps and does help bring in New Members. Also our Membership decided that any person on active duty in the US Armed Forces that lives in our area We will pay for their membership during the entire time they are on active duty. We want, need and welcome New Members to our Post !
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I live in Nevada and hold membership in the VFW, American Legion, DAV and AMVETS. There are a variety of reasons young veterans like myself do not join the veteran groups.
The first is image. Yes a lot of the general public, not just the younger veterans, have the mental image of old guys drinking beer around a bar, feeling sorry for themselves and trading "woe-is-me" stories.
The second is a lot of the individual posts do not try to engage the younger veterans. There are a few reasons for this but the main one is a generational gap. This gap causes a break in communications. Older veterans do not now how to reach out to younger veterans. Case in point I am the Nevada "Student Veteran of America" Liaison. The gentlemen I took over for is over 30 years older than myself. He said he could not do the job anymore because he couldn't connect to the student. There were too many gaps for him to make up: age, military experience, etc.
The third is young veterans left the military for a reason. The last thing they want is to see the same old tired people they left in the military. They want to get their own identity and develop who they are. Joining a veterans group for some feels like putting a uniform back on. The rules, the meetings, the uniforms is a huge turn off for some.
The fourth is sometimes they do join an organization and they quickly leave. Why? Poor leadership and poor communication. I know a lot of posts who are worried more about making "All American" than making sure they are helping veterans. You have the personality clashes, the politics, the "we've always done it this way, it doesn't matter what the rule book says" attitude.
These are just four reasons but it makes it extremely tough for us to stay connected with the veteran groups, turning them to help and just hanging out with other veterans in general. Hope this helps.
The first is image. Yes a lot of the general public, not just the younger veterans, have the mental image of old guys drinking beer around a bar, feeling sorry for themselves and trading "woe-is-me" stories.
The second is a lot of the individual posts do not try to engage the younger veterans. There are a few reasons for this but the main one is a generational gap. This gap causes a break in communications. Older veterans do not now how to reach out to younger veterans. Case in point I am the Nevada "Student Veteran of America" Liaison. The gentlemen I took over for is over 30 years older than myself. He said he could not do the job anymore because he couldn't connect to the student. There were too many gaps for him to make up: age, military experience, etc.
The third is young veterans left the military for a reason. The last thing they want is to see the same old tired people they left in the military. They want to get their own identity and develop who they are. Joining a veterans group for some feels like putting a uniform back on. The rules, the meetings, the uniforms is a huge turn off for some.
The fourth is sometimes they do join an organization and they quickly leave. Why? Poor leadership and poor communication. I know a lot of posts who are worried more about making "All American" than making sure they are helping veterans. You have the personality clashes, the politics, the "we've always done it this way, it doesn't matter what the rule book says" attitude.
These are just four reasons but it makes it extremely tough for us to stay connected with the veteran groups, turning them to help and just hanging out with other veterans in general. Hope this helps.
SSgt James Connolly
Yes you are right on all counts I wish I had a young Veteran like you who I could put in charge of something let you and your crew run it and I would be available at all times to answer your ? and menter you in any way I could and go find the right answer if iI could not enable you to accomplish what ever project you had taken on.
I was an NSO for a long time and being a Nam vet I was already crazy.No slack but I now enjoy interacting with my younger Brothers.
I was an NSO for a long time and being a Nam vet I was already crazy.No slack but I now enjoy interacting with my younger Brothers.
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That's what the VFW did here in Nevada with the Student Veterans of America state chair position. But its tough to get student veterans to even answer phone calls and emails.
I am also currently the president of my Student Veterans Club here at Sierra Nevada College. It's taken us two semesters just to get all the student veterans (about a dozen of us) to feel comfortable enough to come together as a group.
It is even harder to keep up communications with neighboring college student veterans groups. There are a myriad of egos, personal adjustments, family and work issues to have a functioning club. I'm lucky because I can personally reach out to all my veterans. Larger colleges have a larger problem. But it comes down to communication. That is the biggest issue facing all our veterans groups regardless of generation or location.
I am also currently the president of my Student Veterans Club here at Sierra Nevada College. It's taken us two semesters just to get all the student veterans (about a dozen of us) to feel comfortable enough to come together as a group.
It is even harder to keep up communications with neighboring college student veterans groups. There are a myriad of egos, personal adjustments, family and work issues to have a functioning club. I'm lucky because I can personally reach out to all my veterans. Larger colleges have a larger problem. But it comes down to communication. That is the biggest issue facing all our veterans groups regardless of generation or location.
PO3 Donald Murphy
I don't think its so much an "old versus young" mentality. I am a member of SubVets and ALL of us regardless of age, meet and socialize with "submarine service" being the only linking item. Heck, we even have parties and woe be it unto the youngster trying to outdrink a WW2 sub vet...
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As a young vet, I will say this, a lot of us young guys and girls have never heard of these groups. I haven't joined any myself, mostly because I can not afford the dues if any. From my experience a lot of these organizations do not advertise very well and also to be honest, I have no idea what they do. I have seen lately a more representative push from these groups in government, however these groups do not come to any separation classes or out-processing briefs of separating military members. For my own experience, I have always felt I do not belong to any of these groups even with my trips overseas. I have since changed that feeling but I know a lot of my brothers and sisters feel that way.
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SGT Craig Northacker
Well put. The major groups have an unfortunate history of not playing well together. I was invited to join the local VVA, and I went in for lunch one day - there were a lot of drunks by noon-which was not what I did - I worked my butt off. So I did not feel anything in common with getting drunk instead of being productive.
I work with the leadership of VVA in DC, and they have some outstanding people there doing very good and mostly unheralded work. I support the national effort accordingly.
I work with the leadership of VVA in DC, and they have some outstanding people there doing very good and mostly unheralded work. I support the national effort accordingly.
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SGT Craig Northacker
I was invited to meet the AL head of economic development a few years back, He was only interested in who was in the toughest unit in Viet Nam. I told him he was, then asked about what the new programs were, but he went back to Viet Nam. I finally gave up and left - and have not returned.
Again, there are some excellent posts. But the level of politics locally goes beyond anything I am interested in dealing with.
Again, there are some excellent posts. But the level of politics locally goes beyond anything I am interested in dealing with.
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Old school organizations need to adapt with the times or they risk being replaced by social media savvy organizations.
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Here are some other issues I've had with the VFW. I'm divorced now, been with the same lady for years, but she doesn't qualify without a "marriage certificate". Times have changed, people aren't getting married, vets are gay, there are same sex couples. Opens up a huge can of worms doesn't it? The VFW is also bogged down with rules and by-laws that are interpreted differently by district, state, and national. Personally, I don't like the cover, the use of the term "comrade" (makes me think of the USSR), the regular reference to the bible while not everyone believes, OR they may be our a different persuasion. The numerous generational gaps are a recipe for failure. Finally, I found VFWs are very "clickish", the fact that offices are only elected for a year proves counterproductive as the body simply has to delay positive progress and rally the troops to "vote you out".
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1SG John O - Your comment doesn't make any sense. "There is no need because veterans ... felt bad...." I never joined any of these organizations for a number of reasons, but they do serve a purpose for some people. I agree, however, that the organizations seem to cater to older veterans and inhabit smoke filled bars. That is a turn off to the younger veterans.
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When I joined the VFW it was like an interrogation to prove that I served overseas. Maybe this is an issue the VFW is facing--individuals that didn't serve overseas trying to join. It was really strange, and it left a sour taste in my mouth. Needless to say, I wasn't very involved.
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Our local VFW in San Angelo, TX, was desperately hurting for members. I talked to some of their senior leaders during an open house they had and they were asking for ideas on what they could do to draw in the younger crowd. My buddy and I shared some ideas, and after talking for a bit, signed up for membership.
I made a few trips to the VFW after I signed up. Each time I was ignored wholesale by the membership at large. It was so bad, that at one point I went up to someone and introduced myself with a big smile. The individual turned his back to me and went back to drinking his beer.
The same thing happened to me in Clovis, New Mexico about 12 years ago. The impression that I was left with is that the older vets wanted our membership... particularly our money... to keep their bar open. Outside of that, they wanted to have nothing to do with us. Several of them made the misinformed point of stating that "our service was nothing like what they had to do when they served"... Why would I want to hang around with people like that?
I'm sure these two examples are not the case with every VFW across the U.S.... but the posts that do act like this are doing your organization at large a terrible disservice.
I made a few trips to the VFW after I signed up. Each time I was ignored wholesale by the membership at large. It was so bad, that at one point I went up to someone and introduced myself with a big smile. The individual turned his back to me and went back to drinking his beer.
The same thing happened to me in Clovis, New Mexico about 12 years ago. The impression that I was left with is that the older vets wanted our membership... particularly our money... to keep their bar open. Outside of that, they wanted to have nothing to do with us. Several of them made the misinformed point of stating that "our service was nothing like what they had to do when they served"... Why would I want to hang around with people like that?
I'm sure these two examples are not the case with every VFW across the U.S.... but the posts that do act like this are doing your organization at large a terrible disservice.
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MSG Wade Huffman
MSgt Codd, You are correct that there are still too many posts out there with this attitude, they are, indeed, doing the organization as a whole a terrible disservice, and these are the posts that can not possibly survive. You are also correct that your experience is NOT indicative of ALL VFWs (or any other group). Many that were that way have come to the realization that they can not continue to shun new members, more are changing every day. Most of the ones in my area have made great strides in modernizing their attitudes.
As stated before, the best way to implement change is to become involved. I sincerely hope that if you desire to be a member of one of these VSOs that you can find a post you are comfortable with to call your own. Thanks for your input and Thank You for your service!
As stated before, the best way to implement change is to become involved. I sincerely hope that if you desire to be a member of one of these VSOs that you can find a post you are comfortable with to call your own. Thanks for your input and Thank You for your service!
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The VFW and Legion WERE the RallyPoint of their day. RallyPoint is better for me because there is no obligation to respond to comments that are not beneficial to the question on your mind. I quit drinking so it is better for me to use RallyPoint. My post loves their new veterans and by the end of the night, I would have a stack of "chips" (free drink tokens) in front of me.
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I can speak on my behalf: after coming home from Desert Storm, not one....not one... of the veteran organizations reached out to me. All of my squad members from other states were invited in and had a veteran pay their first year dues. I have at least 15 VFW, American Legions, and AmVets within a 20 mile radius of my address. My picture and information was in the local papers, thanks to my mother. I would have gladly joined any one of them if they would have offered.
I see some the of the younger veterans who are in the organizations are not reaching out to the new "flock". They are turning them into "fraternities" and only want certain drinking buddies in. That's not what they are for. We do need to take back these organizations from these disillusioned few and make them a great place to be and to be proud members again.
I see some the of the younger veterans who are in the organizations are not reaching out to the new "flock". They are turning them into "fraternities" and only want certain drinking buddies in. That's not what they are for. We do need to take back these organizations from these disillusioned few and make them a great place to be and to be proud members again.
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SSG (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) , you would have gladly joined if they offered? Your picture in the paper means they know about you? I do not see the connection.
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SSgt James Connolly
Yes we need more of the new vets in our Org.You know they are there why must you wait to be invited everywhere you go you see add's and posters,Are you above anyone else all it takes is stop and see, ask questions get involved . Volunteer for something in the community and it is a never ending gratification you can smle about and take credit for going out of your way to help someone.
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