Posted on Mar 15, 2014
Why are the utility uniforms in the Air Force so similar to the Army?
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I was on Operation Waterfall in Northern Missouri back in 2008 when the Mississippi Levee broke, and we were working with Air Force (nice people). A soldier in the Air Force with the rank that looks like Major in the Army (not sure of the AF ranks) walks up. I was actually confused and wondering, "Why do I not know this person? My unit is a small unit, and I know everyone" because the name didn't sound familiar... Then I noticed the Air Force 'logo'... I did salute, but to this day I'm still confused as to why the Air Forces' uniforms are so similar to the Armys'. Any thoughts/answers?
Uniforms
Air Force
Army
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 10
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Because deep down, the Air Force still wishes it was the Army Air Corps..... ;o)
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SFC (Join to see)
2" spikes sir. 2. INCH. But it is also completely valid and hilarious at the same time!
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SPC Gasho,
Throughout the 80s and 90s all of the services had exactly the same uniforms the BDUs. Most of the other services had other variations, like the Navy's dungarees, the standard everyone worn was the uniform. The only difference was the service tape that said what service you were in and that the Air Force wore blue name tapes.
If you have been following the military news Congress has passed a bill that all of the services will go back to wearing a single uniform. The is the most efficient way for the whole DoD to operate because it saves millions on making different uniforms.
Finally the Air Force officer rank is exactly the same as the Army.
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SPC(P) Delcina Myers
Major Telesco - Thank you so much for your answer, Sir. I remember the BDU's... Haha! I wore them my first 6 months into the military. Do I miss them? Yes. Do I like the ACUs more? Yes, but the velcro can be non-existent. Do I want all components to wear the same uniform? No. It's easier to tell who is in what component, but the AF should have picked different colors. Although they have tiger stripes and we have digitals, the colors are too confusing. On the rank structure: I wasn't sure, so I just addressed him as Sir, as I do every male officer I come across, and Ma'am for every female. When do you think DoD will be changing everyones uniforms again? And which ones, if you know?
Thank you again Sir. Have a wonderful day!
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CMSgt (Join to see)
If you are in a Joint environment, you get very used to the difference and can immediately discern between the two, ABU and ACU.
The two patterns are very different. The Army and AF wear different color boots. The very cut and style of the two are different.
AF Officer rank structure is identical to Army and Marines. You can tell AF Enlisted because we wear our rank on the sleeves.
I miss BDUs, too! I wore those bad boys since 1991. :)
The two patterns are very different. The Army and AF wear different color boots. The very cut and style of the two are different.
AF Officer rank structure is identical to Army and Marines. You can tell AF Enlisted because we wear our rank on the sleeves.
I miss BDUs, too! I wore those bad boys since 1991. :)
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We Air Force cats used to be Army-Air Force and I suspect that and that we love to steal ideas as major reasons. :) l0l
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MSgt Guillermo Ybarra III
The army does have the right idea sometimes, and the AF does like to copy good ideas.
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From the Army thou-est was born but shall not return...
Actually you folks have a better pattern with the tiger stripes. Army and Air Force O ranks are identical in name and apparel. Its the enlisted ranks, like with our Navy & Marine counterparts where everything goes Kaplooey from any branche's standpoint
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/should-all-branches-of-service-adopt-one-standard-rank-insignia
but I SHAMELESSLY digress...
Actually you folks have a better pattern with the tiger stripes. Army and Air Force O ranks are identical in name and apparel. Its the enlisted ranks, like with our Navy & Marine counterparts where everything goes Kaplooey from any branche's standpoint
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/should-all-branches-of-service-adopt-one-standard-rank-insignia
but I SHAMELESSLY digress...
Should all branches of service adopt one standard rank insignia? | RallyPoint
Putting tradition and nostalgia aside for this question and looking at the increase in joint environments, would it be less confusing and more efficient if the services agreed on a standard insignia on duty and dress uniforms?
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
I can always count on you PO1 (Join to see) for a really snappy come back. I'm out of thumbs so I owe you an up.
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PO1 (Join to see)
Ah gee shucks....you shouldn't have...and you didn't! But that's ok MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca I still like ya! It takes strength to admit you're still working on staying inside the lines.....
Here, I'll give you a few of my thumbs UP!
Here, I'll give you a few of my thumbs UP!
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PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner
GO NAVY!!! PO1 Medley I will give you Thumbs Up !!! I would give you 2 but they only let me give you 1!!
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PO3 (Join to see)
After working in higher education and seeing the types of students currently coming through the institution (who are basically the same cohort/generation as our newest SM's), I can see how different ranks (primarily enlist) amongst the services might cause an issue. I might be able to get behind adopting the same insignia across the branches if not for the history and tradition behind our current rank structures.
(As an aside, how would we differentiate between AN, CN, FN, and SN in the Navy if all the services used the same insignia? Would we still just use different colors? THAT would look funky...)
(As an aside, how would we differentiate between AN, CN, FN, and SN in the Navy if all the services used the same insignia? Would we still just use different colors? THAT would look funky...)
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You should have some idea of each branches ranks, in Basic us Airforce guys were forced to learn each branch enlisted and officer ranks, but airforce is probably the easiest compared to army's enlisted ranks. officer ranks for airforce and army is the same and enlisted is in this order for airforce, E-1 Airman Basic (AB) slick sleeve, E-2 Airman (Amn) one stripe, E-3 Airman 1st Class (A1C) two stripes, E-4 Senior Airman(SrA) 3 stripes, E-5 Staff Sargent(Sgt) 4 stripes, E-6 Technical Sargent (TSgt) 5 stripes, E-7 Master Sargent (MSgt) six stripes, E-8 Senior Master Sargent (SMSgt) seven stripes, E-9 Chief Master Sargent (CMSgt) 8 stripes, following are names each can be called E-1: Airman or airman basic, E-2 Airman, E-3 Airman 1st Class or Airman, E-4 senior airman or airman, E-5 Sargent or Staff Sargent, E-6 Tech Sargent or Sargent, E-7 Master Sargent or Sargent, E-8 Senior Master Sargent or Sargent, E-9 Chief Master Sargent or Chief, if you notice the correlation with the stripes and the enlisted rank each rank is one less stripe! Good luck
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CMSgt (Join to see)
Please take this as spot mentoring-- your point is not being made articulately. Stand corrected and humbly accept guidance when it is offered. Thank you, Sir. That is all.
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SSG Keven Lahde
TSgt (Join to see) I agree with you on people having to learn other ranks from other branches in the service. When I went to basic for the Navy in '96, all we did was Navy and Marine Corps ranks. We were not worried about other 2 branches. Now that may have changed I am not sure. Then when I went to WTC(Warrior Transition Course) basic training for prior service members crossing over to the Army, we never studied the other branches of service either. I think the Air Force basic might be more incline to learn more about the other branches more. Heck I have been on three active duty tours, 1 to Afghanistan, and 2 state side on the Border Mission in San Diego, CA and it was a joint mission with Air Force. I picked up a few of the ranks and someone told me the best way to remember it was if it has 5 stripes he is an E4. Just subtract 1 from the stripes and gives you the rank. What always threw me off was when you get the roof I call it over the rank, I could never figure it out. So I agree we should know other branches rank.
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SSG Keven Lahde
CMSgt (Join to see) SMSgt Thank you for the correction on the correct way to spell out the Air Force ranks. I was confused for a minute there. I always want to get the spelling correct. So your rank, your an E-8?? I hope I am correct with that. Forgive me if I am wrong.
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CMSgt (Join to see)
Good morning, SPC(P) Lahde,
Thank you for asking. Yes, I am an E-8, equivalent to an Army MSG. (Yet delighted to say that I am promoting to Chief Master Sergeant/E-9 shortly.) :)
If you google the rank structure, they have charts that will make it easier to familiarize yourself. In this age of Joint assignments, it makes life a lot easier to not get chewed out by a Marine Master Gunnery Sergeant for calling him/her "Sir" or "Ma'am" because you can't count his/her collar fast enough and do the "stripe math". (Been there! Not fun. Lol :))
Thank you for asking. Yes, I am an E-8, equivalent to an Army MSG. (Yet delighted to say that I am promoting to Chief Master Sergeant/E-9 shortly.) :)
If you google the rank structure, they have charts that will make it easier to familiarize yourself. In this age of Joint assignments, it makes life a lot easier to not get chewed out by a Marine Master Gunnery Sergeant for calling him/her "Sir" or "Ma'am" because you can't count his/her collar fast enough and do the "stripe math". (Been there! Not fun. Lol :))
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1. We have the same officer ranks as the Army, the only difference is we wear blue for Lt Col and 1st Lt instead of black. 2. Please don’t refer to a member of the Air Force as a soldier. No disrespect intended, but we are very proud of our aviation heritage. So all members of the Air Force, pilot or not are “Airmen”.
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1. Air Force rank is the same as Army, we just wear blue for 1st Lt and Lt Col instead of Black. 2. Please don’t call a member of the Air Force a soldier. No disrespect, but we are (generally) proud of our aviation heritage. The term is Airman in the Air Force.
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I was Army then Retired as USAF. In all honesty, I cannot understand why we go through this over and over. A utility uniform which is colored for appropriate camo in the area of combat deployment is ideal. A basic green utility uniform was issued for decades without change. It was appropriate in any environment the "garrison" type was deployed to. Two uniforms seemed to do the job. Then the services decided to goof with them. Now we have Navy types wearing a bluish uniform, and several types of tan uniforms and all kinds of special service uniforms and its just another "pride" thingie. My vote...go back to the same two for all branches.
With that said, lets talk rank...there is a lot of history in the various ranks. Patches are inexpensive. It is important to uphold tradition. To remember history. To honor those who went before. I would never want to see a Navy type wear Army rank or a USAF wear Marine rank. That would be rank. lol.
With that said, lets talk rank...there is a lot of history in the various ranks. Patches are inexpensive. It is important to uphold tradition. To remember history. To honor those who went before. I would never want to see a Navy type wear Army rank or a USAF wear Marine rank. That would be rank. lol.
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I can't speak as to the exact mindset or reasons behind the choices made in uniform design, but I can most certainly speculate!
I always thought that the color scheme was chosen to be similar to the Army so that when airmen deployed, they could use out OCIE. Body armor, etc. A way of cutting cost for a force that doesn't move into a theater of operations on their own. If an airman is required to use said equipment in an operational environment, it is likely he/she will be in proximity to an Army ground force and can draw the same equipment without causing a drastic change in their appearance.
But many time's I've seen Navy and Air Force simply put on the entire uniform of the miltary branch they are working with and simply modify the service tape and rank to reflect Air Force requirements. Our JTACs and Air Force EOD down range wore multicam just like the rest of us.
I always thought that the color scheme was chosen to be similar to the Army so that when airmen deployed, they could use out OCIE. Body armor, etc. A way of cutting cost for a force that doesn't move into a theater of operations on their own. If an airman is required to use said equipment in an operational environment, it is likely he/she will be in proximity to an Army ground force and can draw the same equipment without causing a drastic change in their appearance.
But many time's I've seen Navy and Air Force simply put on the entire uniform of the miltary branch they are working with and simply modify the service tape and rank to reflect Air Force requirements. Our JTACs and Air Force EOD down range wore multicam just like the rest of us.
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LTC Paul Labrador
What always surprised me, was when I asked a Navy friend of mine why the Navy made their own cammies instead of simply wearing MARPAT since they were all Dept of the Navy. I was told that Navy only wears MARPAT when deployed with Marines, but weren't allowed to wear MARPAT otherwise. That made absolutely no sense to me.
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SSG Genaro Negrete
Since it's inception, MARPAT was always the usmc's baby. There are even tiny EGA emblems Scattered throughout the pattern.
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