Posted on Nov 13, 2017
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The Army allows people with full sleeve tattoos, criminal history, drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight people, and now psychotic people serve in the military. Clearly the Army isn't worried about looking professional or being professional. Numerous other Allied nations allow their service members to grow beards and have no problem with their SMs utilizing gas masks. Uniformity definitely isn't an issue either, since we have different hairstyles, uniforms, etc. What are your thoughts on this?
Edited >1 y ago
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CAPT Kevin B.
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F272f973
As to the regs, there are exceptions. Quite a number of operators in the sandbox have beards. Typically variances are driven by operational necessity. Part of the definition of "uniform" is to look alike. There are different uniforms, but we're directed to wear specific ones for specific circumstances. I needed my beard in Antarctica so my face didn't stick to cold surfaces or frostbit so easily. Defrosting the ice cube out of the beard at dinner was another story though. For the most part, the grooming standards are part of limiting the variation and keeping things more "uniform". It comes with the job and like all the other regs can be considered a condition of employment. Although still legal in the Navy, the Marines didn't appreciate me showing up on their base in my beard. I didn't need it any more so shaved. The Navy ditched the beard thing around 1980.
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SCPO David Ingram
SCPO David Ingram
>1 y
Gotta say Captain that's a pretty nice looking beard. I was in during the Zumwalt years and (Zgrams) as I recall the command had to approve individually and if the sailor looked like shit with one off it came. I remember a lot of the "old salts" looked, well salty with them. I unfortunately was one of those that the bearded old Chief said, "don't even think about it Shitbird". I don't recall any issues or problems with them and the navy guys were fighting flight deck fires etc. with them.
Does the Navy stil support "deep freeze"? someone said the Air Force (god forbid) has it now. I wonder if they are authorized to wear beards.

Cheers
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CAPT Kevin B.
CAPT Kevin B.
>1 y
Navy is long gone. Only flight (ANG/AF) and ice breaker (CG) operations as everything else has been contracted out. I'm the guest speaker at the Seabee Ball out Seattle way in March. The topic will be Seabees in Antarctica.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
4 y
That looks not bad atall but should it be required to be 1.5 inches shorter or maybe 3 inches longer what about the two i shaved but trimmed portions under lower lip. Fill in sides it trim it all the way across under the lip.
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PFC Jonathan Albano
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Edited >1 y ago
The gas mask, that's currently in use in our military, doesn't seal properly with facial hair- and I believe you're mistaken in your statement that other nations effectively conduct mask training while sporting a beard. They do allow for beards, however, the only masks I'm aware of that work with beards tend to cost more than a military organization, to include the U.S. Military, are willing to pay for their regular soldiers. Gas masks that work with beards are, until a less expensive model is developed, a pipe dream for all but the Special Forces.
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SPC Miguel Rosario Cruz
SPC Miguel Rosario Cruz
6 y
WHY I SEE ALL OF YOU THAT ARE IN ACTIVE DUTY CALL A PROTECTIVE MASK A GAS MASK
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SPC Cargo Specialist
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It is a lot safer especially when in a field environment to not shave it reduces the risk of infection from nicks or from open pores, its definitely not healthy for your skin to shave everyday
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SPC Aviation Operations Specialist
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It's that way because our regs are out of date and no one will change anything because we've only trained yes men for the last couple decades
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Sgt Tee Organ
Sgt Tee Organ
6 y
Thanks to the influence score limit I can't vote you down. You're lucky cause you were about to get it.
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SPC Aviation Operations Specialist
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6 y
You must be one of the yes men
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SGT Jimmy Russo
SGT Jimmy Russo
5 y
when people want to complain about something they always try to include things that are of a false or cherry picked statement to provide some sotra background that in their mind justifies their Belief of the subject matter
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PO2 Kevin Parker
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Being with the CBRN for over 17yrs! I can say that having a beard would not be a good idea if you had to mask up! Being retired Navy and was in when we could have beards I think it sucks you can't! Although we had to keep our beards properly trimmed so our mask would fit properly! It was hard to actually keep it that way! You being Army and myself being deployed with Army Chemical Company's in Afghanistan and Iraq, I know there would be no time to properly keep a beard trimmed! So basically wait till your out and then grow one.
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CPT Topher Murphy
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First off the initial statement is misleading. The Army doesn't allow psychotic people to serve. If someone lies/misleads about their mental health history that is on them. However as a former Army psychologist I can attest to the fact that those who were psychotic were separated. I had to eval a few down range who had psychotic breaks and were med-evac'd and eventually separated from the Army.

As far as the other issues waivers are required. Criminal history and substance abuse problems almost always catch up with the person. Meaning that past behavior is an indicator of future behavior. I know there are some who were able to turn it around.

Beards are a different animal. Yes a person with a beard can seal the mask in the gas chamber. I've personally observed some Sikh's in my OBLC class do it. I can grow a mean beard myself. However I'm also for uniformity i.e. "one team" mentality.
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CPT Topher Murphy
CPT Topher Murphy
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I’ve seen the article. I’m being nit picky but it doesn’t say psychotics can join. I’m talking actively having auditory, visual or tactile hallucinations.
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SSG James Behnke
SSG James Behnke
>1 y
CPT Topher Murphy -
Thank you. Words, and more importantly definitions, matter. Just because I call you crazy doesn't make it true...
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MSG Dude
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>1 y
What would you call a person who does not know what gender they are or who identifies as a female when they were born as a male? I’ve personally seen dudes with make up and fake eyelashes while I was at Walter Reed a few months back. What would you call those people? Most people I ask this question are scared to comment because they can’t answer truthfully without worrying about offending some of those “psychotic people”. Me, well I don’t care if they get offended then maybe they will change their ways. They want to act dumb then expect to get treated dumb.
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SGT Motor Transport Operator
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Many responders have decided that beards are unprofessional??? I wonder how they came to the conclusion
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SSG(P) Photographer/Owner
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But not unprofessional enough for special forces?
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SGT Motor Transport Operator
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What convinced the person that wrote the AR that beards were unprofessional
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SGT Motor Transport Operator
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I guess u think the AR should never be updated then
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SGT Squad Leader
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It's unprofessional because you're not allowed to do it, and you're not allowed to do it because it's unprofessional. Simple Army logic. Get your hands out of your pockets.
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SPC Armor Crew Member
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Proper seal of pro mask, that's it.
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SFC Eric Hedberg
SFC Eric Hedberg
>1 y
Well, SPC... YOU can take that chance if you want. As for me and my soldiers.. WE will remain clean shaven and live. You do what you think you have to do,..
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SPC David Willis
SPC David Willis
>1 y
SFC Eric Hedberg - A lot of special operators take that chance as well...
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SSG Squad Leader
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SFC Eric Hedberg - what about the soldiers with a waver or profile?
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PO2 . Lancaster
PO2 . Lancaster
6 y
You can maintain a seal with a mask - it's old school thinking that you cannot.
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MCPO Kurt Stauff
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I joined the Navy in 1983, when beards were allowed, within specifications. When I made PO3 (E4), I had to put in a special request chit to grow a Navy-regulation beard--this was in 1984. I was able to get a 30-day leave period between my "C" schools and had time to grow a decent beard. I got back to that final "C" school and in a weekly inspection a particularly tough female warrant officer was inspecting my class, finding less than polished belt buckles, scuffed shoes, and "irish pennants" that went down as negative marks against the Sailors. When she reached me, she squared away her fireplug bulk, looked me up and down, and said,"That's a fine-looking beard, Sailor! Give this man an outstanding!" Well, that was worth a special liberty pass, so I was ecstatic.

When I reported to my first sub in Groton, CT, in December, the Chief of the Boat (COB) welcomed me aboard then told me gruffly to shave my beard off because 'the Captain didn't like them', and I was due to meet him the next morning. The Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) at the time had declared that beards would be banned on January 1st, 1985, anyway; so went the experience of my Navy beard. Since I've retired, I have grown a beard, off and on, but it is too fussy to keep well-trimmed, and is more efficient to keep clean-shaven.
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MAJ Ronald Mandell
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I believe that each of the armed forces wants to appear to be professional and clean-cut in the eyes of the public they serve, pure and simple. I could not imagine Marines with beards, ear rings, nose rings, lip rings, etc. Marines take pride in being and looking squared away. I think the leaders of the other services at least want to stay in the same universe as the Marines. There was a time in the late '70sm when Admiral Zumwalt (I believe his name was) allowed sailors to grow beards. It didn't last long, because it just wasn't accepted by the public at large, as what they expected of their servicemen. I know that every time I saw a sailor with a beard, I winced.
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LCDR Retired
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6 y
Having been on active duty during the Admiral Elmo R. Zumwalt (as CNO) era, I can remember his having allowed Navy haircuts to include sideburns to a point, and to allow mustaches, however, I do NOT remember regulations allowing beards. Beards were always detrimental to a properly functioning gas mask (so we were told).
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PO1 George Ogan
PO1 George Ogan
6 y
The infamous Z grams did allow us to have beards. As you can see by my profile photo. I only grew one because I could. LOL I did not have one when on the Coral Sea, and New Jersey but when I got to the Jason in 77 it was allowed. But our division officer did check the length and make sure those that could not grow them removed them quickly.
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