Posted on Jul 12, 2021
Why do so many MSGs insist on being addressed as Master Sergeant?
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AR 600-20 is clear. The title of address for a MSG is "Sergeant." My personal opinion is that the majority of MSGs that insist on it do so because of their ego. The remainder is just ignorance.
EDIT: There have been a lot of responses from folks of various services, so let me make it clear (if it wasn't already) that this question pertains to Master Sergeants in the United States Army. I don't hold any grudge with people who address them as "Master Sergeant" out of respect. I usually just make a gentle correction and move on. My question SPECIFICALLY addresses those individuals who (presumably knowing better) INSIST on being addressed in a manner that is out of line with regulation and what their motivation could be for doing so. Many responses are some variation of "They've earned it" but that doesn't hold much water with me. By the time an NCO makes MSG, they should be secure enough in their career and position to not need constant affirmation of their rank.
EDIT: There have been a lot of responses from folks of various services, so let me make it clear (if it wasn't already) that this question pertains to Master Sergeants in the United States Army. I don't hold any grudge with people who address them as "Master Sergeant" out of respect. I usually just make a gentle correction and move on. My question SPECIFICALLY addresses those individuals who (presumably knowing better) INSIST on being addressed in a manner that is out of line with regulation and what their motivation could be for doing so. Many responses are some variation of "They've earned it" but that doesn't hold much water with me. By the time an NCO makes MSG, they should be secure enough in their career and position to not need constant affirmation of their rank.
Army Regulations
Customs and Courtesies
NCOs
MSG
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 307
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The earned it, you should do as they order you to do.
The real question here is why do you take issue with it?
The real question here is why do you take issue with it?
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SGM (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) - What the SPC doesn't realize is that this would NOT be "adding to a regulation" but CHANGING a regulation
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SPC Chris Ison
SGM (Join to see) - Well the fact that you went to the university of phoenix must explain why you do not understand how to use your appellations.
The proper Signature block, for you would be:
Dr. David Hatfeild, SGM, US Army, Retired.
How do you expect me to respect your opinion on appellations, when you do not even know how to use your own?
The proper Signature block, for you would be:
Dr. David Hatfeild, SGM, US Army, Retired.
How do you expect me to respect your opinion on appellations, when you do not even know how to use your own?
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SGM (Join to see)
SPC Chris Ison - My signature block was correct at the time of my retirement. I'm not required to keep up with Army policies on such mundane things. I learned as much at UOP as doctoral students at most other universities. That you know nothing about the quality of doctoral education at UOP tells me all I need to know about your knowledge on educational matters.
I noticed your response tried to turn the conversation back on me, but you couldn't rebut my comment about changing a regulation vice adding to one. Not sure what your fixation is on "appelations," since that wasn't any part of my comment to you or anyone else. I think I'm finished with this conversation.
I noticed your response tried to turn the conversation back on me, but you couldn't rebut my comment about changing a regulation vice adding to one. Not sure what your fixation is on "appelations," since that wasn't any part of my comment to you or anyone else. I think I'm finished with this conversation.
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I called MSG by whatever they asked to be called as. Mostly out of respect. But if they had an ego issue I called them by proper rank and carried on. There’s too much work to be done to worry about petty stuff. Because in the end when you are out no one is going to call you by your rank in the civilian world. Unless the occasion calls.
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I have been both MSG and 1SG. The troops that I served with as 1SG call me Top, When i was an MSG it was Sergeant. Today as a retiree I look at the Army my family members are now serving in and constantly ask what in the hell is going on. The Army needs to enforce all of the customs and curtsies not just the ones that are your pet peeve.
How many of you call a lower enlisted just by their last name? That is wrong also.
How many of you call a lower enlisted just by their last name? That is wrong also.
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SPC John Tacetta
MSG James Devereaux - Wow, scary! You must hang with Eddie Gallagher quite a bit. The SF guys I knew were strictly by the book, although they did have a strange sense of humor that I could appreciate.
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SPC John Tacetta
MSG James Devereaux - I was always in a unit within the "first order of battle" and "Top" what we called the 1SG if we got along with him. Junior enlisted were always last name alone unless you were best of friends. It was likewise with the SF guys we trained with, although they were, as a rule, NCOs. I'm not doubting your experience, it's just what I saw.
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SGM (Join to see)
SPC John Tacetta - The "first order of battle" would include all the combat, combat support, and combat service support units required by the theater commander. I spent a great deal of time reading and writing parts of theater operation plans, including OB information. I don't recall any theater OPLAN that involved deploying combat units without also deploying a required level of CS and CSS units. That's similar to when I was landing in Saudi Arabia as part of the CENTCOM HQ, with a large number of CENTCOM, ARCENT, NAVCENT and CENTAF HQ staff people, all arriving at the same time as the earliest combat units, 15 August 90, IIRC.
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SPC John Tacetta
SGM (Join to see) - Church. The tip of the spear must be supported to be effective, and, not to boast, I was always at the tip of a spear that was kept keenly sharp and ready, even if we were never used. Forward deployed POGs needed to keep their grease guns oiled if they tagged alongside us. Of course, even the best troops would never get far without proper support. We still called our likable 1SGs "Top", though.
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In most cases it is ego.
Those that want that, feel the need for more attention, and think themselves more important than other NCO's of their grade.
Two important sayings instilled into me by senior NCO's during my time in the Army.
1 I can dress up a chimp and make him look good, but that does not make him worth a damn.
2 Don't ask or tell anyone bellow you to do something that you are not willing to do yourself.
Those that want that, feel the need for more attention, and think themselves more important than other NCO's of their grade.
Two important sayings instilled into me by senior NCO's during my time in the Army.
1 I can dress up a chimp and make him look good, but that does not make him worth a damn.
2 Don't ask or tell anyone bellow you to do something that you are not willing to do yourself.
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Yes, you are right in the Army it is just Sergeant. Some MSG don’t ask to be called MSG, but Sergeant. However some of their troops may do it out respect for them as a person. Also I know the Marines address folks by their full rank. I’m not sure about the other services (Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and now the Space Force) if they or don’t.
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It’s respect for the rank. They have spent years too obtain the strips and should be addressed as such. Ego has nothing to do with it. They are in a leadership roll above a Sgt E-5, E6 and E7 and should be addressed by their rank.
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AR-600-20 notwithstanding, General Patton was once asked: which rank was the most difficult in the army to perform. He replied Master Sergeant. Why ? asked the other, and Patton said, “because we demand and expect so much from them”.
I’ve sometimes wondered why the regulation is so. After all a colonel has only been promoted 5 times. A Master Sergeant has been recognized and promoted 7 times.
I advised 0-6s thru 0-10s the last 21 years of my 37 years of service. Most GOs addressed me as Top or 1SG, occasionally as Master sergeant. I earned my Master sergeanthood.
And that’s my two cents.
I’ve sometimes wondered why the regulation is so. After all a colonel has only been promoted 5 times. A Master Sergeant has been recognized and promoted 7 times.
I advised 0-6s thru 0-10s the last 21 years of my 37 years of service. Most GOs addressed me as Top or 1SG, occasionally as Master sergeant. I earned my Master sergeanthood.
And that’s my two cents.
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SGM (Join to see)
Of course, in WWII, a Master Sergeant was the highest enlisted rank, similar to one of the Sergeants Major ranks today.
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I have never requested that from anyone that I was senior to. As long as it's not disrespectful I don't really care. Although I think some say it out of respect. I've had people call me "Top" or "1SG" even after they knew I was no longer a First Sergeant. Anyone who requests that has a problem.
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