Posted on Jul 12, 2021
1SG First Sergeant
111K
1.74K
592
421
421
0
AR 600-20 is clear. The title of address for a MSG is "Sergeant." My personal opinion is that the majority of MSGs that insist on it do so because of their ego. The remainder is just ignorance.

EDIT: There have been a lot of responses from folks of various services, so let me make it clear (if it wasn't already) that this question pertains to Master Sergeants in the United States Army. I don't hold any grudge with people who address them as "Master Sergeant" out of respect. I usually just make a gentle correction and move on. My question SPECIFICALLY addresses those individuals who (presumably knowing better) INSIST on being addressed in a manner that is out of line with regulation and what their motivation could be for doing so. Many responses are some variation of "They've earned it" but that doesn't hold much water with me. By the time an NCO makes MSG, they should be secure enough in their career and position to not need constant affirmation of their rank.
Edited >1 y ago
Avatar feed
Responses: 307
Votes
  • Newest
  • Oldest
  • Votes
MSG Psychological Operations Specialist
12
12
0
What MSG asks to be called Master Sergeant? I was sometimes referred to as that for some reason , but I never saw or heard of another MSG telling anyone to call them that .

Anyone who has been in long enough to make MSG knows what the correct title and how to address a MSG is.
(12)
Comment
(0)
1SG First Sergeant
1SG (Join to see)
4 y
I agree that anyone who has been in long enough to make MSG knows what's right...and yet...they do what they want to anyway. I correct Soldiers on this all the time, an the most common response is a story of another MSG that hemmed them up for not addressing them as "Master Sergeant."
(5)
Reply
(0)
1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
4 y
I vaguely recall one who insisted on being called "Master Sergeant" because he very emphatically had no desire to ever, ever be a first sergeant.
(2)
Reply
(0)
SSG Title 10 Mission Manager
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
I remember my first day at a unit, I addressed a MSG as "SGT" and got chewed out for about 10 minutes of "I earned this rank, you'll address me as such." Obviously, that's what I called him, and he ended up being a good mentor, but there are still some out there who are gung-ho about being addressed as such.
(2)
Reply
(0)
SGM Chief Executive Officer (Ceo)
SGM (Join to see)
3 y
SSG (Join to see) - He might have been a good mentor, but he was wrong about that!
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CPT Lawrence Cable
11
11
0
I still like the Marine way better. There are differences in duties and responsibilities between E-5 and E-8, why not acknowledge that and call them by the proper and full rank?
When they make me Sec Def, look for that change :^).
(11)
Comment
(0)
SFC Kathy Pepper
SFC Kathy Pepper
4 y
MSgt Chris Haggerty - When I first learned the nickname “Top,” I was told it was because the 1SG is the highest ranking enlisted person in the company. No one ever treated any 1SG as if he were a child’s toy. (I never liked the Air Force tradition of calling a 1SG “First Shirt” because it is too easy to call him a “Stuffed Shirt.” But, it's not my decision what their nickname should be.)
(2)
Reply
(0)
GySgt Kenneth Pepper
GySgt Kenneth Pepper
4 y
SFC Kathy Pepper - Dang Kathy!!!! I didn't realize not using full rank was an Army C&C/time honored tradition. In that case I will allow you to continue. Carry on.
(1)
Reply
(0)
CPT Lawrence Cable
CPT Lawrence Cable
4 y
GySgt Kenneth Pepper - By the book, everyone except the 1st Sergeant and CSM are referred to just as Sergeant in the Army. I think the Marine way is just better. When they make me Secretary of Defense, I'll change that custom :^).
(4)
Reply
(0)
1SG Intelligence Analyst
1SG (Join to see)
>1 y
SFC Kathy Pepper - The term "First Shirt" is actually an Army tradition going back to when we established pioneer forts. The most senior sergeant in a unit had first pick of the new clothing when resupplied...it actually pre-dates the establishment of the rank in 1847.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Casey O'Mally
8
8
0
Back in the way way back our motor sergeant was a MSG who insisted on "Master Sergeant." His was PURE ego. He actually custom made his MSG rank (completely outside of AR 670-1 authorizations) but supergluing 2 MSG pin-on ranks and the cutting/filing the extra set of pins. Then he M-Nu'd the results for a pin-on rank that was double thick just to make sure everypne could see it.

I was a young PFC at the time. I did a lot of push-ups for calling him "Sergeant." I did even more when I showed him in black and white where he was wrong. And still more when I showed him the part of 670-1 that refered to his rank.

He not only KNEW he was wrong, he flaunted it and was proud of it.

Still never refered to him as "Master Sergeant," though, at least not to his face.
(8)
Comment
(0)
CSM Carlson C.
CSM Carlson C.
4 y
Sounds like something I would have done...
(4)
Reply
(0)
SGM Chief Executive Officer (Ceo)
SGM (Join to see)
3 y
Perfect!
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CPT Staff Officer
8
8
0
In AIT I said “good morning Sergeant” to the 1SG. He wasn’t as jovial most here.
(8)
Comment
(0)
1px xxx
Suspended Profile
3 y
One of those crusty, grumpy, old SNCO's, eh... Yeah, every branch of the service has them. ....Chuckle....I love the grumpy SMaj. that Sam Elliott plays in "We Were Soldiers" though!!! Totally cracks me up!!!! Eg: New Lt. crosses paths with the SMaj. first thing in the morning and gives him a cheerful greeting. SMaj. comes back and says something like: "You the fucking weather man now?!?!?!?" Leaves the Lt. completely rattled and dumbfounded as to how to respond. Classic "deer in the headlights" kind of a thing.....lol...lol..... I'm guessing you've seen the movie, so you know what I'm talking about.
Avatar small
Cpl Vic Burk
7
7
0
I wouldn't be surprise if it weren't an ego thing especially when they first earn the rank. After the newness passes most probably would be OK with just Sergeant. Unless otherwise directed I would call them "Master Sergeant" mainly as a sign of respect for their rank. In the Marines the usual rank address was "Top" [last name] and the same "Top" address was applied to Master Gunnery Sergeant.
(7)
Comment
(0)
SPC John Tacetta
SPC John Tacetta
>1 y
MSG James Devereaux - Yet, it exists, and it's an NCO rank. Telling a CPL to go pound sand was just as preposterous as telling a SGT the same. It was always given to some high-speed, well-liked lifer aspirant who just didn't have enough time in service for E5. It would certainly get you into to the NCO club and separate you from the E4 mafia.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SGM Chief Executive Officer (Ceo)
SGM (Join to see)
3 y
MSG James Devereaux - Hate to tell you, but you were taught wrong. A Corporal is a NCO and should be treated as one. In all the units I've been in or worked with, Corporals were top-quality young Soldiers who were put in charge of other Soldiers who were more junior in rank. They were doing a leadership job, and mostly doing it well. Your disrespect of an entire group of NCOs is not any more warranted than me saying "99% of all the MSGs I ever knew were fat, wore their uniforms like they'd just pulled them out of a full duffel bag, couldn't be a 1SG (or shirked their duty and avoided taking a hard job and left it for their peers to take on) and still lived at home with their mommies." I would never say that because it isn't true, but it is for some MSGs, I suppose. Shish, I don't know how some people ever get promoted - well I do, but I don't have to like it...
(0)
Reply
(0)
1px xxx
Suspended Profile
3 y
I was always taught that the only Marine who could be called Top, is a Master Gunny, and that's the only time I ever used the title, and I never got into any kind of trouble for following that advice. Everyone else who out ranked me was by the book. It served me quite well. There's more to this particular story than what I have said, but I'm trying to keep this short.
GySgt Troy Wiltshire
GySgt Troy Wiltshire
3 y
Cpl Jason Lang - it’s actually Master Sergeants that are called Top and that’s from back in the day when that was the senior enlisted rank they were the Top rank. When they added E-9’s to the rank structure they for some reason never changed who was called Top.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Kathy Pepper
6
6
0
In basic training, our drill sergeants taught us that there are three sergeants: Sergeant, First Sergeant, and Sergeant Major. I HATED being called “Staff Sergeant”; the few people I let get away with it were Marines. The only time I referred to someone by specific rank was when there were two sergeants with the same last name. By the way, there is also only one private; calling someone “PFC” is merely a courtesy.
(6)
Comment
(0)
SGT David Schrader
SGT David Schrader
4 y
You are correct about the rank titles.
All Specialist ranks were all addressed as specialists and Warrant Officers were addressed as Mister or Ma’am.
(2)
Reply
(0)
SPC John Tacetta
SPC John Tacetta
>1 y
Best comment in this thread.
(0)
Reply
(0)
1px xxx
Suspended Profile
3 y
Thank you. The slack you cut us is very much appreciated, because we're only addressing you the way we have been taught to address others according to Marine Corps Reg's. And like I said in a previous comment, what really ruffles our feathers is when someone from another branch tries to call us an "E - something". That's not our rank. That's our pay grade. There are a few Marines out there who truly don't care, but most of us do.
Avatar small
MSG Ron Radar
6
6
0
Edited 4 y ago
I always wondered that myself . I was a MSG for 11 years and was as far as I remember just called Sarge /Top ( Except when I was a D.I. ...LOL ) which was just fine with me ! I do remember a few with ramrods up their kister who demanded the full title and they were NOT well liked or respected due to their attitudes . The military is more than just ranks , you have to be a people person as well and never forget that one of your main functions is to TEACH ! It's hard to teach if those you're trying to instruct feel ostracized because of your attitude and fear of you . I'm not saying you're supposed to make everyone your beer buddy or go out of your way and relax the rules and protocols to the point that you lose control of your subordinates but there's no way you need to be a prick all the time either . There's a level of respect that goes with each rank and most of those serving know the boundaries and the proper tone to set with those above and below them in rank . The main thing I miss from being in is the respect we all show each other regardless of rank , we all knew our jobs and we knew those we served with were still learning /teaching the new guys so everyone was on the same page . I say Learning/teaching because we NEVER stop learning how to do our jobs better . I'm not saying there was no back stabbing while in but compared to the civilian job market we were ALL trusted saint's by comparison ! I know that the two are very separate but the amount of insanity and hate that civilian jobs have going on makes me wonder just how the heck we EVER got to be a first world Nation ! It's no wonder that our Government is so screwed up , there's no way to make anyone in this Nation happy unless THEY'RE the boss ( and then they still wouldn't be happy because no one would do everything they wanted them to.....LMAO ) . It's a Mad,Mad,Mad world out there and thank God there's the military to bring some stability into our lives ...... ! AATW
(6)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
6
6
0
I would refer to certain MSGs as "Master Sgt" as a sign of respect for the individual because I felt they had earned it. For others, I simply referred to them as "Sgt" mainly because I knew it royally pissed them off and there was nothing they could do about it so long as I observed proper C&C.
(6)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MGySgt Sal Sgroi
5
5
0
It is not ego, it is their rank. They earned it. It drove me crazy when I was called Sarge. I earned my rank and was proud of that so call me Master Sergeant or 1st Sergeant. In my case Master Gunnery Sergeant.
(5)
Comment
(0)
1px xxx
Suspended Profile
3 y
With the advice of my grandfather, and my great uncle who were both Marines, the only time I didn't go by the book when addressing another Marine, was when I addressed the Master Gunny, (in my, specific, squadron), and that term was "Top". Their advice served me quite well on this topic. I never once got in trouble for addressing another Marine the wrong way.
Avatar small
CSM David Porterfield
5
5
0
Calling someone doesn't by their actual rank doesn't bother me, what I hate is when people refer to each other by pay grade which is a dumb Army thing. I hate hearing "go ask that E-6" or I told the "E-5" or "she got promoted to E-8" etc... We should use Sergeant or actual rank not someone's pay grade. Most of my career that was a pet peeve of mine, oh and Sergeants who can't spell Sergeant.
(5)
Comment
(0)
SFC William Linnell
SFC William Linnell
4 y
I came across that more with the finance side of the house and when the civilians started taking over positions Army use to hold. It was an erk the hell out of me as well CSM. I'm not a pay grade, I'm a SFC. Now when it came to the lower enlisted of the Navy I asked because their system is crazy.
(5)
Reply
(0)
SPC Dennis Kregel
SPC Dennis Kregel
>1 y
The only time mentioning a pay grade is correct is when mentioning the backbone of the Army. The E-4 Mafia!
(6)
Reply
(0)
CSM David Porterfield
CSM David Porterfield
>1 y
SPC Dennis Kregel hahaha I stand corrected.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SPC Chris Kuhlman
SPC Chris Kuhlman
>1 y
I never had an issue with being "that E-4" when a Private was sent to me to get help. Especially when it was an NCO who did it. I knew a lot of my SGT and SSG when we were all SPC together (I had no desire to promote) and when we would be talking and they would mention some BS thing going on I would routinely say "That sounds like an E-5 (or E-6) problem to me." Sometimes out of spite they would delegate the problem to me and reply "Now its an E-4 problem, what?!" Its different when you have the rapport to do that though.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

How are you connected to the military?
  • Active Duty
  • Active Reserve / National Guard
  • Pre-Commission
  • Veteran / Retired
  • Civilian Supporter