Posted on Jul 12, 2021
Why do so many MSGs insist on being addressed as Master Sergeant?
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AR 600-20 is clear. The title of address for a MSG is "Sergeant." My personal opinion is that the majority of MSGs that insist on it do so because of their ego. The remainder is just ignorance.
EDIT: There have been a lot of responses from folks of various services, so let me make it clear (if it wasn't already) that this question pertains to Master Sergeants in the United States Army. I don't hold any grudge with people who address them as "Master Sergeant" out of respect. I usually just make a gentle correction and move on. My question SPECIFICALLY addresses those individuals who (presumably knowing better) INSIST on being addressed in a manner that is out of line with regulation and what their motivation could be for doing so. Many responses are some variation of "They've earned it" but that doesn't hold much water with me. By the time an NCO makes MSG, they should be secure enough in their career and position to not need constant affirmation of their rank.
EDIT: There have been a lot of responses from folks of various services, so let me make it clear (if it wasn't already) that this question pertains to Master Sergeants in the United States Army. I don't hold any grudge with people who address them as "Master Sergeant" out of respect. I usually just make a gentle correction and move on. My question SPECIFICALLY addresses those individuals who (presumably knowing better) INSIST on being addressed in a manner that is out of line with regulation and what their motivation could be for doing so. Many responses are some variation of "They've earned it" but that doesn't hold much water with me. By the time an NCO makes MSG, they should be secure enough in their career and position to not need constant affirmation of their rank.
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 307
While others may quote AR 600-20 to address a Master Sergeant as a Sergeant. I simply believe as a Soldier and Officer; and a prior Marine NCO it wouldn't hurt to give the man or woman his/her dues by simply referring to him/her as Master Sergeant. Kind words and good gesture go a long way.
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SGM (Join to see)
Except you're teaching any young Soldiers who hear you the wrong way of thinking and acting.
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MSgt Earl King
SGM (Join to see) - In the Marines a Master Sergeant is not a Sergeant!! A First Sergeant is not a Master Sergeant, a Sergeant Major is not a Master Gunnery Sergeant!! But they are all Sergeants in the ENLISTED RANKS!! Now think about non-commissioned officers [NCOs] and Staff Noncommissioned Officers [SNCOs] if a Sergeant addressed me as Sergeant I would set him straight , and God help him if he addressed me by my first name, and school him really quick, My First Name Is Master Sergeant!! So like I said before, I don't understand all this Bull.
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SGM (Join to see)
MSgt Earl King - "In the Marines a Master Sergeant is not a Sergeant!! A First Sergeant is not a Master Sergeant, a Sergeant Major is not a Master Gunnery Sergeant!!" Except the Chaplain and I aren't in the Marines, so whatever the Marines do isn't relevant to us unless we're dealing with Marines.
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I don’t insist on it, but I gave up explaining that it is incorrect. I used to do it myself because it seems more respectful. I have served in several joint assignments and a naval officer thanked me for explaining that I am addressed as SGT, not MSG. He said you would never do that with a marine NCO. A staff sergeant is addressed as staff sergeant etc.
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I cannot answer question nor will I speculate on it. All I required the people under my control to call me was Sergeant when I was a Master Sergeant. When I was a Direct Support/General Support Maintenance Control Sergeant, I had a very heavily heated discussion with a newly appointed 2LT from another unit in my office behind closed doors after duty hours and yes, there was profanity coming from both of us. Apparently one of my people heard us and from that day on, I was called "Master Blaster" because I was giving him hell. But after that day, we both had more respect for each after and we both apologized for our behavior. When I was promoted to First Sergeant, I was called "First Sergeant" or "Top", except except when the Bn SGM would call to tell me something had to be done and I would inform him that it had been taken care of and he would reply "Damn You" are you a friggin mind reader. So every time he would see me, he would always call me "Damn You" when no one was around. We had a very good rapport and understanding.
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I've heard the way to address sergeants has changed, though nothing officially that I heard. We always referred to ALL levels of sergeants, as "Sergeant XYZ," except for 1SG's and Sergeants Major and CSM's. I do recall when I was attached to the Marines, they used the full title, i.e., "Staff Sergeant, Master Sergeant," etc.
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SSG Bill McCoy
Sgt (Join to see) - Didn't realize that about M/Sgt's being "Top." Only recall meeting one and a BN S/Maj. Definitely knew about "Gunny," and/or "Guns!" Like Navy CPO's, Gunny's were able to stop trains with their bare hands and bullets with their teeth! LOL
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When I was a recruiter, oh so many years ago, had a MEPS senior Guidance counselor that demanded it.....he was an a$$hat to say the least. I politely informed him of prtocol and the regulation, upon which I hung up the phone.
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Anyone earning promotions senior to the first “retirement rank” is not a shitbird just hanging around to get their 20 in, and should be addressed by their rank.
This is normal in the Corps. How about the rest of you getting your shit together...
This is normal in the Corps. How about the rest of you getting your shit together...
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SGM (Join to see)
When you are in the Army and senior enough to rewrite and approve the regulation, then what you think the Army should do might carry some weight. Until then it's just your opinion.
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You are probably correct though you can't say for certain without asking them all.
You have a long project ahead of you if you want to thoroughly research this issue.
I am sure that there are most likely better things for a MSG to do with their time.
You have a long project ahead of you if you want to thoroughly research this issue.
I am sure that there are most likely better things for a MSG to do with their time.
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MSG Ron Radar
CSM David Porterfield - Exactly , being a MSG was the best time I had . Folks left you alone and I got to pretty much set the training schedule for the troops to keep them well up to par ( and over ) , First Sergeant's never really bothered me as they were happy to have someone else keep training going while they dealt with the REMF's ...LOL...! I loved training the troops as it kept them occupied and improved their moral not to mention having high fitness scores for the Company . Well trained troops are happy troops is what my first MSG who trained me as a lowly buck sergeant always told me . Plus helping to teach the new guys just starting on their NCO path was rewarding . Sergeant's are and always will be the backbone that makes the Military work ! AATW
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MSgt Earl King
SPC John Tacetta - I'm quoting this from my notes: The First Sergeant and Sergeant Major ranks are command-oriented Senior Enlisted Advisors, with Marines of these ranks serving as the senior enlisted Marine in a unit, charged to assist the commanding officer in matters of discipline, administration, and the morale and welfare of the unit. Master Sergeants and Master Gunnery Sergeants provide technical leadership as occupational specialist in their specific MOS. A First Sergeant can go to any command, a Master Sergeant can't, [MOS]. I would never be sent to a rifle platoon.
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SPC John Tacetta
MSgt Earl King - That would be in line with my experience. I never saw a MSG in any platoon I served with. Semper Fi to you!
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"Sup Top...lots of good comments over the months. If I were to call the two MSGs in our BDE-Lvl HQ "Sergeant..." I think one would not care; one would greatly care and feel insulted, harassed, degraded. My perspective: Regs say "Sergeant". IF a MSG is in a leadership billet (what we used to call "green-tab" positions") like a Detachment NCOIC or a Senior Enlisted Advisor to a commander, then calling them "Top" is appropriate, and Master Sergeant is a sign of positional authority and respect. If they are a HQ Section NCOIC, then follow the regs and wait for a "Hurt Feelings Report" or EO complaint because some of these NCOs think they are peers to the First Sergeant. I prefer to keep the peace and show respect to all...until someone starts crap. P.S. Be nice to everyone...it is a small crowd at the top.
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Well, if the situation calls for it, like in a professional environment and to show some respect, which is what this world is lacking, I'd say ANY senior NCO should be called be his/her rightful ranking! There's really nothing hard about that and it doesn't take anything away from anyone for doing or saying it! My banking representatives call me by my full rank, and I don't have a problem with it at all! I just feel that people are too uptight about things and think their freedom of speech has no consequences!
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Achieving MSG is a career milestone and out of deference and military courtesy that title should be honored.
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I'm 68, been retired for 27 years and in my 20+ years of Army service, I never once had a MSG correct me when I addressed him/her as Sergeant. I venture those who are now insisting on it are considerably younger than I am and are quite ignorant as to how the Army does things. That is to say, they need to familiarize themselves with AR 600-20 and quit wasting people's time on trivialities.
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As I read it the only MSG by rank allowed to be called anything but Sgt. are the ones in position of 1st Sgt. and only when in the position of 1st Sgt. Otherwise they are to be called Sgt.. Period. So in my opinion its ego and they need to be corrected. Wouldn't technically be Stolen Valor for them to claim to be a rank they are NOT.
Where I live we have a gov. that claimed just that.
Where I live we have a gov. that claimed just that.
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The rank of Master Sergeant does not the prestige of the rank of First Sergeant.
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It's just that Master Sergeant don't have as much prestige as First Serhesnt in the
US Army.
US Army.
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Having been out of the military for so long, the only time I recall having to do that was first in basic training or formal gatherings when introducing someone and using their proper rank. Even with LTC or Full Bird, unless it was a formal circumstance, they were Col. But hey, my memory of those days has begun to fade a bit, lol.
What I do find funny is that my youngest brother attained CMSgt and different times I visited him at Wright-Patterson AFB and Warner-Robbins AFB. Those that worked for him, as well as the Col. and Maj. Gen. he worked for just called him Chief in less formal settings.
What I do find funny is that my youngest brother attained CMSgt and different times I visited him at Wright-Patterson AFB and Warner-Robbins AFB. Those that worked for him, as well as the Col. and Maj. Gen. he worked for just called him Chief in less formal settings.
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