Posted on Jul 13, 2015
SFC Food Safety Inspector
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This epidemic that ravages our ranks needs to change. So much focus is what's going on in the here and now that will be irrelevant in a few weeks to months, we are losing Soldiers daily. I almost lost a mentor this past weekend. Just a rant
Posted in these groups: B4caadf8 Suicide78568930 PTSD
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SFC Stephen King
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Edited 10 y ago
SFC (Join to see) You are correct this is an epidemic and we need to focus on a solution not the cause. To be able to have a matrix to predict a suicide is unrealistic. All people's thought's are just that there own. The US needs to recognize the problem and aggressively try to assist all who need help. Only 2% of society is currently serving. One death is one to many.
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CSM Michael J. Uhlig
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Edited 10 y ago
Having a couple individuals in our circle of trust is vitally important to each one of us...identifying those withdrawing from those groups is the hard part.

What could help us all is identifying some things you might have noticed after the fact to clue us in to the warning signs (without naming names). Thanks SFC (Join to see) for addressing this topic as it is a very real threat to every organization, regardless of the mission!
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SFC Food Safety Inspector
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10 y
CSM, absolutely hit it spot on, I posted a post on another social media site and suggested we look to our brothers and sisters in arms to the right, left, front, and back of us and if something's off have the hard conversation. It's better to be wrong and the person is fine versus not discussing it and losing someone. This needs to happen in garrison more now that we have less troops on the battlefield.
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
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I'm glad that you "almost" lost a mentor - I hope it was because you or someone else recognized some symptoms and offered help before it was too late! PTSD is something we ALL need to be cognizant of and have awareness with fact based info along with the spiritual discipline to combat this - and we CAN do it! I hate seeing articles that label PTSD as a hopeless disease and listening to people complain they can't do anything because they've had PTSD for 20 yrs - really? Let me tell you something - you're not trying hard enough! Don't settle! Beat it! Google PTSD well stories and you will find thousands! And no, you don't have it worse than everyone else!
If you want too - you CAN live a meaningful life and manage all your PTSD symptoms - and - have very strong relationships and be a blessing for others.
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SFC Food Safety Inspector
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10 y
I've been down the PTSD road, the good bad and ugly I had to help bury my closest friend in the Army and a brother from another mother last year due to his struggle and losing the battle, I can't stand by and see any more of this.
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
CMSgt Mark Schubert
10 y
I think people need more encouragement than discouragement! We can't save everyone, but we can save those who want to be saved. There's an abundance of help out there - both good and bad - but any help is better than NO help! (in most cases) Most of the time, even the bad help will lead to good help! PTSD and TBI cases are all unique and therefore may require more than one source for help. You can be a valuable resource if you are "close" friends - you might be the only person they can talk to - so you need to do the listening - and if you are not sure, ask for help yourself to be able to discern what you are being told.
You are doing a benefit for others just by talking about it! Thank you for your service!
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Why do we put up with PTSD and Suicides?
SSG Keith Roberson
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Not enough information and focus placed on identifying the problem until its too late.
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SFC (Join to see) I am sorry for your loss.

This has been a corporate culture problem in the military, and especially the Army for a very long time. DOD is unwilling and unable to acknowledge that PTSD exists in the ranks. If they did, far too many soldiers (and other active duty personnel) would become non-deployable due to their PTSD/other behavioral health issues. Most of these (but certainly not all) are related to multiple extended combat tours. The extent to which folks have been deployed for combat since Desert Storm is unprecedented. I work with some soldiers with as many as 10 combat tours under their belts.

The official claim is that 24% of veterans have PTSD. I don't buy it. I've seen it in almost every multiple tour vet and in many single tour vets as well. This is of course less common in the conventional Navy, but certainly all Navy SF folks, and those who were seconded to ground units in the war suffer the same fate. I know a submarine Electronics Tech who was assigned as an Army communicator in Iraq for instance.

The problem with the massive denial also has another factor, which is what the Army and other services base their denials on. That is that if they acknowledged and dealt with the PTSD, there would be many goldbrickers who would claim PTSD when healthy, to get out of work. I know that is a bit of a problem, but in reality leadership are burying their heads in the sand.

IF PTSD in the ranks had been dealt with, SSGT Bayles would not have shot up those Afghani civilians, and SGT Russel would not have shot up Camp Liberty, because those two soldiers would never have been deployed in the first place. I wrote to Bear 6 (CG I Corps) at the time, and told him that the chain of command of these two soldiers should be taken to Court Martial as well for malfeasance. He thanked me for my concern and did nothing. What really shocked me is that attorneys for neither of these soldiers raised those issues at Court Martial. Instead they struck Plea Deals to avoid the risk of the Death Penalty. I'm not really sure that Life in the DB at Leavenworth is living...

I truly hope that the new leadership of DOD will be made aware of the true extent of the problem and do something, but do I believe it will happen? OF COURSE NOT!
SGT Anthony Rossi
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I believe that one of the greatest causes of PTSD is a result of personal regret. The few soldiers that I have spoken with express emotional struggles over their actions or lack of actions while in service. The military needs to do a better job allowing freedom concerning "rules of engagement" , and then back soldiers up when they are forced to make difficult situations in combat. Things aren't always black and white and a soldier shouldn't walk around in fear and regret of "perceived" past failures.

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. -James 1:8 HOLY BIBLE
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SGT Matthew Ellis
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I know of at least 6 guys from both of my deployments who have killed themselves in the last few years. Almost all of them sought help from the VA, ended up the same or worse than when they started, stopped seeing the VA, then killed themselves.

I keep hearing about how all of these guys do it and never seek help, but at least in my experience that seems to be wrong. They try to get help, the help fails them, and they give up. From my experience with the VA and mental health, I think I understand why. The shrinks always seem to be trying to fix the wrong thing and end up just wanting to dope you up on anti-depressants. I won't take them and most of the guys I know won't either.

The solution, I believe, is in mental health professionals stepping back and realize that what they think the problem is, really isn't, and then finding the right one.

I've discussed this with a lot of my guys over the years and to a lot of us, it isn't the horrific crap we've seen and/or done that has us all messed up. It's that we aren't there experiencing it anymore. I know to some it really is an issue dealing with bad stuff that happened and the morality of their actions, but for many of us we just wish we could be back there doing it all over again. Shrinks don't treat that. Not even sure that they can.
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Rick Wiseman
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It's hard when the VA can't recognize their own Dr.s recommendations. The best fix is for us to stand together as a community.....
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PO1 John Miller
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SFC (Join to see)
I'm glad you didn't lose your mentor!
I have lost Shipmates to suicide and all I can say is, I blamed the Chain of Command for not doing enough (long story but I did and still do blame a particular Master Chief Petty Officer for my friend/Shipmate taking his own life).
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LTC John Shaw
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SFC (Join to see) Your right! We can't put up with either and our drive and desire need to be zero instances of both. Both are very difficult to identify and complex to resolve which prevents the normal training approaches from being effective.
The training needs to be laser focused on the most at risk soldiers to be more effective. The current training is bludgeon soldiers with one size fits all training. This clearly has limits.
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SFC Food Safety Inspector
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Sir I'm not going to sugar coat it, it's check the block training
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SPC Jeffrey Bly
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Okay. I'll bite. You're exactly right. I agree with you 100%, but what do you propose we do about it? How do we make changes? Where do we start?

I agree that it is necessary to get whatever burden it is off our chests. It's too heavy to carry alone. Who do we tell without seeming weak? Who do we tell without the fear for being locked up for our own safety or for the safety of others? How can such able strong courageous men break down in front of others? How do we avoid the stigma?

These are just a few things off the top of my head, but they are things I have thought of over the years. I'm curious.
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SFC Food Safety Inspector
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All thank you for the insightful feedback, this is an issue I hold near and dear to my heart. I'm glad there are folks out there that share this passion as well. Yes education is necessary not only for troops and leadership, but I think education at the VA, and federal levels of government and including senior military leadership that answer to our elected officials and more funds to help research, diagnose, treat, and maintenance therapies etc could help
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CPO Joseph Grant
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We came close to losing a few crew members over the course of three years. When the crew size is 120 that's a high percentage. Unfortunately we looked at the attempted suicides as non-hackers. We looked at the situation as "If I can take it, everyone can". Granted, Submarine duty and Submariners weed out the weak but suicide should not be the end result. Those personnel should have been transferred to the surface fleet before they broke. I think when I retired in 05 that the problem was just being noticed.
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