Posted on Feb 15, 2018
Why do you think there are so many school shootings now?
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Why do you think there are so many school shootings now as opposed to say 25 to 30 years ago? We all know that guns can’t shoot themselves, so obviously that is not the problem in my opinion. I honestly believe that there is a direct correlation between the rise of school shootings and the taking of God out of the classroom, and kids not getting a well deserved a** whooping. Thoughts on this?
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Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 203
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Has anyone brought up the over prescribing of psychotropic medications within the public schools? Also, how often do these shootings take place in parochial or private versus public schools? Boys in particular are routinely threatened with discipline, simply for being boys. Educators seem more interested in teaching LGBTQ...XYZ, gender identity, Islam, Climate Change "science," and other forms of indoctrination, than useful skills.
Also, seems these significant news events always occur shortly after the release of damning evidence against Democrats.
Also, seems these significant news events always occur shortly after the release of damning evidence against Democrats.
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MSgt Darren VanDerwilt
What 100 school shootings before Charles Whitman's 1966 shooting spree are you referring to? Incidentally, he had something in common with every other spree killer, mental instability. The original post regards current events, last 20 years, which would include the Columbine massacre. It has been noted as fact that mood altering medications were prescribed and used by spree killers at some point before their rampages. The point, in regards to leftist ideological dogma, is these issues do not fall into what schools are supposed to be teaching (reading, writing, arithmetic, history, and critical thought). They are a diversion.
The notion that there's been hundreds of school shootings is based on highly suspect, and disingenuous, data metric gathering standards. Much like classifying a hanging suicide as firearms related because police found an unloaded handgun in a nearby dresser drawer.
The notion that there's been hundreds of school shootings is based on highly suspect, and disingenuous, data metric gathering standards. Much like classifying a hanging suicide as firearms related because police found an unloaded handgun in a nearby dresser drawer.
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SGT (Join to see)
Respectfully, apparently history isn’t big on the agenda, either. I won’t insult you by listing all 100+, but here are just a few:
Morey Junior High School, 1961. 2 killed.
William Reed School, 1960. 3 killed. (Principal was the shooter)
Alexander School, 1951. 2 killed.
Williams College, 1936. 2 killed, 1 injured.
Parson Hill School House, 1891. 14 injured.
Highly suspect? People were shot and killed/injured at school or at a school event. Furthermore, school is simply supposed to be teaching. But Im guessing you would prefer rightist, ideological dogma.
Of course, reading, writing and arithmetic are pretty much no-brainers. But the original post, as you point out, only asks about the last few decades. That would indicate a lack of understanding of history and context about the nature of school shootings, or spree shootings in general. Your response would indicate the same.
Our children should be as well educated as possible. On as many topics as possible. As I wrote previously, ignorance breeds violence. The irony of the explosion of the access to mass information for the majority of people (really, starting with television and then the development of the internet) is that it has made our society far more ignorant, as a whole.
It’s easy to cherry pick the information you consume (don’t like it, change the channel/web page). And people confuse the consumption of more information with the acquisition of knowledge.
Morey Junior High School, 1961. 2 killed.
William Reed School, 1960. 3 killed. (Principal was the shooter)
Alexander School, 1951. 2 killed.
Williams College, 1936. 2 killed, 1 injured.
Parson Hill School House, 1891. 14 injured.
Highly suspect? People were shot and killed/injured at school or at a school event. Furthermore, school is simply supposed to be teaching. But Im guessing you would prefer rightist, ideological dogma.
Of course, reading, writing and arithmetic are pretty much no-brainers. But the original post, as you point out, only asks about the last few decades. That would indicate a lack of understanding of history and context about the nature of school shootings, or spree shootings in general. Your response would indicate the same.
Our children should be as well educated as possible. On as many topics as possible. As I wrote previously, ignorance breeds violence. The irony of the explosion of the access to mass information for the majority of people (really, starting with television and then the development of the internet) is that it has made our society far more ignorant, as a whole.
It’s easy to cherry pick the information you consume (don’t like it, change the channel/web page). And people confuse the consumption of more information with the acquisition of knowledge.
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MSgt Darren VanDerwilt
Very interesting. I found the list. Noteworthy point, most, if not all, involved an escalation of an argument, revenge, and cases of jilted lovers (both student and faculty). Similar to the recent statistics, relative information is sparse in some cases. Historical facts can be a troubling thing. Depending on source, and who's repeating it, the truth gets blurred.
Your short list has inconsistencies compared to the list I found. For example, there was one student killed, not two, in the Morey Junior High School incident. (October 17, 1961 Denver, Colorado Tennyson Beard, 14, got into an argument with William Hachmeister, 15, at Morey Junior High School. During the argument Beard pulled out a .38 caliber revolver and shot at Hachmeister, wounding him. A stray bullet also struck Deborah Faith Humphrey, 14, who died from her gunshot wound.) Here's the link: https://www.k12academics.com/school-shootings/history-school-shootings-united-states
There's a few items that are interesting to note within this list.
1. The majority of attacks during this time period (1800's) by students on other students or teacher, usually involved stabbing with knives, or hitting with stones.
2. There are very seldom reports of mass or multiple school shootings during the first three decades of the 20th Century, with the three most violent attacks on schools involving either arson or explosions.
To clarify a point, I'm advocating that the public schools shouldn't be pushing any agenda, left or right.
Now for the main part. The original post seemingly advocates a need for further controls to firearms access. Noteworthy though, is how, after increased measures to limit firearms form schools, little has been affected. This is like noticing your cars' oil gauge fluctuating. You check the oil level, notice it's at the lower part of the indicator on the dipstick, so you add oil. But the oil gauge still fluctuates. The logical person looks at a possible bad oil pump. The gun control advocate consistently adds more oil, never solving the root cause of the problem.
Your short list has inconsistencies compared to the list I found. For example, there was one student killed, not two, in the Morey Junior High School incident. (October 17, 1961 Denver, Colorado Tennyson Beard, 14, got into an argument with William Hachmeister, 15, at Morey Junior High School. During the argument Beard pulled out a .38 caliber revolver and shot at Hachmeister, wounding him. A stray bullet also struck Deborah Faith Humphrey, 14, who died from her gunshot wound.) Here's the link: https://www.k12academics.com/school-shootings/history-school-shootings-united-states
There's a few items that are interesting to note within this list.
1. The majority of attacks during this time period (1800's) by students on other students or teacher, usually involved stabbing with knives, or hitting with stones.
2. There are very seldom reports of mass or multiple school shootings during the first three decades of the 20th Century, with the three most violent attacks on schools involving either arson or explosions.
To clarify a point, I'm advocating that the public schools shouldn't be pushing any agenda, left or right.
Now for the main part. The original post seemingly advocates a need for further controls to firearms access. Noteworthy though, is how, after increased measures to limit firearms form schools, little has been affected. This is like noticing your cars' oil gauge fluctuating. You check the oil level, notice it's at the lower part of the indicator on the dipstick, so you add oil. But the oil gauge still fluctuates. The logical person looks at a possible bad oil pump. The gun control advocate consistently adds more oil, never solving the root cause of the problem.
History of School Shootings in the United States | K12 Academics
1700s The earliest known United States shooting to happen on school property was the Pontiac's Rebellion school massacre on July 26, 1764, where four Lenape American Indian entered the schoolhouse near present-day Greencastle, Pennsylvania, shot and killed schoolmaster Enoch Brown, and killed nine or ten children (reports vary).
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SGT (Join to see)
Excellent point. With the morey junior high shooting, it looks like I misread the news paper. Apologies. See link:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=PAozAAAAIBAJ&pg=4617,710365
While I haven’t previously seen this particular list, it too, has some peculiarities. It mentions that most attacks were were stabbing or stories. But it really only lists shootings. Also, it mentions that the worst attacks were arson or explosions. Interesting. (Let’s hope our kids don’t graduate from shootings to making HME and planting’s IEDs). Regardless, this could simply mean that they used what was available to them. Put those same people in our society today, and they’d use ARs. Put our modern rampage shooters in that era, and they would simply use knives, stones or arson.
Now, for the main part. The main post had nothing to do with advocating for gun control. He posted, “We all know that guns can’t shoot themselves, so obviously that is not the problem in my opinion. I honestly believe that there is a direct correlation between the rise of school shootings and the taking of God out of the classroom, and kids not getting a well deserved a** whooping”.
It seems the main post advocated more of a religious ideology being taught in schools. As if that would somehow alleviate school shootings. As if there is a correlation to taking god out of the classroom and school shootings going up.
My point is that there has always been and will continue to be violence. Even in schools. In response to your thoughts, I originally brought up that Jefferson was a proponent of Islam and certainly didn’t fear it. (Which you’ve not responded to). Fear breeds ignorance. And ignorance breeds violence. I’ve repeatedly stated that despite having access that the collective knowledge of the history of the world, our society is becoming increasingly fearful, thus increasingly ignorant, thus increasingly violent.
I don’t support more gun control. Getting rid of pencils won’t eliminate spelling errors, right? I do, however, advocate more education and knowledge. And when you write, “...LGBTQ...XYZ, gender identity, Islam, Climate Change "science," and other forms of indoctrination”, it indicates that you don’t view those as legitimate topics. Which is unfortunate.
Because understanding the science of climate change is more important than having god in the class room. Understanding Islam (which is different than being indoctrinated. But there are over a billion Muslims in the world. It’s a good idea to know about them) is probably important. Not understanding Islam is one of the reasons we’ve been fighting (almost to a standstillat this point) for decades.
Knowledge. Education. If even to debate the side you’re arguing against, it’s better to know about something than not know. Again, fear breeds ignorance. Ignorance breeds violence.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=PAozAAAAIBAJ&pg=4617,710365
While I haven’t previously seen this particular list, it too, has some peculiarities. It mentions that most attacks were were stabbing or stories. But it really only lists shootings. Also, it mentions that the worst attacks were arson or explosions. Interesting. (Let’s hope our kids don’t graduate from shootings to making HME and planting’s IEDs). Regardless, this could simply mean that they used what was available to them. Put those same people in our society today, and they’d use ARs. Put our modern rampage shooters in that era, and they would simply use knives, stones or arson.
Now, for the main part. The main post had nothing to do with advocating for gun control. He posted, “We all know that guns can’t shoot themselves, so obviously that is not the problem in my opinion. I honestly believe that there is a direct correlation between the rise of school shootings and the taking of God out of the classroom, and kids not getting a well deserved a** whooping”.
It seems the main post advocated more of a religious ideology being taught in schools. As if that would somehow alleviate school shootings. As if there is a correlation to taking god out of the classroom and school shootings going up.
My point is that there has always been and will continue to be violence. Even in schools. In response to your thoughts, I originally brought up that Jefferson was a proponent of Islam and certainly didn’t fear it. (Which you’ve not responded to). Fear breeds ignorance. And ignorance breeds violence. I’ve repeatedly stated that despite having access that the collective knowledge of the history of the world, our society is becoming increasingly fearful, thus increasingly ignorant, thus increasingly violent.
I don’t support more gun control. Getting rid of pencils won’t eliminate spelling errors, right? I do, however, advocate more education and knowledge. And when you write, “...LGBTQ...XYZ, gender identity, Islam, Climate Change "science," and other forms of indoctrination”, it indicates that you don’t view those as legitimate topics. Which is unfortunate.
Because understanding the science of climate change is more important than having god in the class room. Understanding Islam (which is different than being indoctrinated. But there are over a billion Muslims in the world. It’s a good idea to know about them) is probably important. Not understanding Islam is one of the reasons we’ve been fighting (almost to a standstillat this point) for decades.
Knowledge. Education. If even to debate the side you’re arguing against, it’s better to know about something than not know. Again, fear breeds ignorance. Ignorance breeds violence.
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Forgive me, but I'm going to double-dip on this discussion thread and provide a second response. It fits with my first response wherein I described some of the potential contributing factors. However, as I read more about this latest shooting, I discovered one I didn't mention. It appears that the shooter in this most recent incident has possibly fallen under the pall of terrorists. As someone famous famously said, "When you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything." Well, in recent years both the popular and news media has been attacking traditional American values. Activists have attacked the teaching of traditional values in our schools and other public places. Parents have abandoned traditional family values.
Interestingly, I once read that the children of Jews were most likely to fall under the pall of cults because Jewish parents hid their religion out of fear of reprisal. Their children were thus open to the siren song of the cults. Is it possible that we see the same thing playing out among other American families who have abandoned traditional values? Have terrorists organizations taken up the role that religious cults once played?
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/02/14/scumbag-shooter-bizarre-instagram-602708
Interestingly, I once read that the children of Jews were most likely to fall under the pall of cults because Jewish parents hid their religion out of fear of reprisal. Their children were thus open to the siren song of the cults. Is it possible that we see the same thing playing out among other American families who have abandoned traditional values? Have terrorists organizations taken up the role that religious cults once played?
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/02/14/scumbag-shooter-bizarre-instagram-602708
Fox News: Florida shooter reportedly followed Syrian resistance groups; searched out 'Allahu...
Fox News is reporting that suspected Parkland shooter Nikolas de Jesus Cruz followed “resistance groups in Syria” on his Instagram page. Martha MacCallum reported for Fox News on the development in the Parkland massacre case, as police investigators and journalists seek out a motive for a shooting that claimed the lives of at least 17 …
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PO3 John Wagner
Perfectly valid and no doubt accurate observation Jack.
It reminds me of a couple of X-files episodes where that very phenomenon was observed. Kids want to belong to something. There are those out there who will fill the void.
It reminds me of a couple of X-files episodes where that very phenomenon was observed. Kids want to belong to something. There are those out there who will fill the void.
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MSG Charles Turner
Sir,
Just my OPINION of course BUT; I believe, not as the media states, but a more realistic idea that "They are not as mentally ill" as many in media portray but This is direct action for the left to take over our society. When we have mothers and fathers claiming that their son or daughter should not have been SHOT while they were Robbing (or committing any crime with a weapon) we are sending more of that message that OUR RIGHTS as Law Abiding Citizens are Less (or dont even exist) when compared to select Criminals. Is this what we are to believe?
Just my OPINION of course BUT; I believe, not as the media states, but a more realistic idea that "They are not as mentally ill" as many in media portray but This is direct action for the left to take over our society. When we have mothers and fathers claiming that their son or daughter should not have been SHOT while they were Robbing (or committing any crime with a weapon) we are sending more of that message that OUR RIGHTS as Law Abiding Citizens are Less (or dont even exist) when compared to select Criminals. Is this what we are to believe?
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Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D.
The clue was in your question: "hard targets." i couldn't resist. In fact, it follows an axiom (at least when sanity is in charge) of trying to infiltrate enemy lines: go around where they are are going to shoot back. Of course,if they are too lazy to shoot or unwilling to protect the target as happened with "cowardly law enforcement" (my choice of words) walk right on in!
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PO1 Chad Alcock
MSG Charles Turner - One of the things I see is the prohibition of "cruel and unusual punishment". Did that person committing the crime take into account how their actions were going to affect the victim? I agree that there are many times that the "law" seems to be more worried about the rights of the criminal than the rights of the victim. I believe due process should take it's course, but when everything settles, it should be the person in the wrong that gets punished. Also Have you ever noticed that most times when some one gets in trouble, it's never their fault?
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Specialist - Its a lot of things that have created a storm and frienzy in society today. Read the other posts here. People are told they are special and different from day one. Trophies for everyone, everyone is a winner. The cold, hard truth is that failure, rejection, and loss are as real as anything else. People can't cope now. Society has tried to shield people from these facts and it has created weak people, both mentally and physically. Discipline, both from parental upbriniging, and in the school house, is needed to stop stuff like this from happening.
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These kids these days have no discipline and morals; I just don’t blame the parents but I blame society too cause they took away religion in school, took away the teachers or educators power to discipline the children in school. These kids think everything should be handed to them and when you say no to something they get in a rage cause that’s what they aren’t use to hearing.
A parent can teach their child everything right but society and the will teach them everything else. I’m from the city where school shooting first started happening in the 90’s and from then on it got worst.
The sad part about the shooting is we can really stop them if they injury 1 student or kill 20 we can’t stop them cause school are public and no behind a wall all the time. Since I been a police officer people always ask why the police Wasn’t there but we can’t be everywhere. If I’m on one side of the building then who on the other side?
We need to bring back discipline and get rid of these electronics devices and actually talk and teach out youths!
A parent can teach their child everything right but society and the will teach them everything else. I’m from the city where school shooting first started happening in the 90’s and from then on it got worst.
The sad part about the shooting is we can really stop them if they injury 1 student or kill 20 we can’t stop them cause school are public and no behind a wall all the time. Since I been a police officer people always ask why the police Wasn’t there but we can’t be everywhere. If I’m on one side of the building then who on the other side?
We need to bring back discipline and get rid of these electronics devices and actually talk and teach out youths!
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MSG Charles Turner
SGT,
I think society is what "WE" allow it to be or make it. Comes back to us....
It is quite simple .. WE KNOW IT IS WRONG, WE COMPLAIN BUT DO LITTLE OR NOTHING TO CHANGE IT.... It is our fault.
~ole Sarge~
I think society is what "WE" allow it to be or make it. Comes back to us....
It is quite simple .. WE KNOW IT IS WRONG, WE COMPLAIN BUT DO LITTLE OR NOTHING TO CHANGE IT.... It is our fault.
~ole Sarge~
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With the news still fresh on TV and the internet, it may seem like there are more school killings now than 25 years ago, but that isn't always the case. The conclusion that there are more school shootings now is based on a heuristic assessment. The graph I included shows data back to 1992, and as you can see there are actually less school homicides.... the data is not specific to shootings. Sometimes (often) it isn't that it is happening more, just that we are closer to it, and we hear about it more as it reverberates through TV and the internet - a product of the internet age.
When you start to think the world is a more violent place than it used to be, ask yourself when was the last time someone was drawn and quartered or burned at the stake? The amplification of information may make it seem like the world is growing more violent, but it actually isn't. I recommend reading: Better Angels of our Nature: Why Violence had Declined by Steven Pinker as some good reading material on the subject.
When you start to think the world is a more violent place than it used to be, ask yourself when was the last time someone was drawn and quartered or burned at the stake? The amplification of information may make it seem like the world is growing more violent, but it actually isn't. I recommend reading: Better Angels of our Nature: Why Violence had Declined by Steven Pinker as some good reading material on the subject.
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MSgt Steve Sweeney
"Capitalism which takes care of it's Poor, Elderly, First Responders, Veterans, and others within our Society." - What sort of capitalism is that? You speak of "the elite" and "we the people" in some sort of class conflict.
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LCDR Robert S.
And while the number of school homicides has decreased, what has increased is the number of homicides in a given incident - this is certainly attributable to the huge volume of media coverage each incident generates. Anyone who decides that he's going to shoot up a school has two things that weren't available before CNN came on the scene. The first is the knowledge that, if he wants to make a big splash, he can't just kill one or two people, he's got to have enough victims to generate a large volume of press coverage. The second is that he has seen the news coverage of previous incidents, which means that he's not starting his planning from zero, since he's seen maps and timelines for previous incidents.
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MSgt Steve Sweeney
LCDR Robert S. - So media coverage kills people, but guns that provide the ability to kill numerous people in a short amount of time are not a problem?
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MSgt Steve Sweeney
MSgt Steve Sweeney - Sorry, just saw this. Not saying it isn't a problem, but it isn't a problem that is likely to be solved in the short term, or even the long term, in any amicable fashion because it involves the government limiting the rights of citizens. The deaths of innocents in any situation is abhorrent, and I understand that all Constitutional rights have limits imposed by consensus for the good of society and the people that live under a civilized government, but this is really reaching in at a personal level. It really tests what it means to be a "free" person when the government can dictate what you can possess, and when the question is being forced by the actions of a very few individuals (mass killers) amplified by the current media climate.
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Kids are bored, no discipline, playing grand theft auto and shit thinking i can do that too !!! and go off and shoot up the place. A huge portion of our society is on line now and no one saw the red flaggs around that dude ? If you see somethig say something !!!! This stuff right there is gonna force me to home school my child and as much as i would prefer public or private school systems, i just dont trust that they will keep my child safe. Its geting rediculous, how the F**k some one can get a darn rifle at one age and a pistol at another age ? Our law makers need step in and make drastic law changes or we will continue to see this typo of tragedies and it needs to stop TIME NOW !!!
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PO3 (Join to see)
LCDR (Join to see) - I agree, that it is a confusing mess and if we could decide on one age of majority across the board that would be nice.
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SFC (Join to see)
LCDR (Join to see) - I grew up in Poland and back then our adult age was 18, not sure how it is now but either way, the behavior of todays youths and overall personalities, maturity levels are changing so I don't think we can afford to call adulthood here in US at 18, it should be 21 years old. Same goes to teen driving and alcohol consumption oh and tobacco.
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PO3 John Wagner
SFC (Join to see) - Major Ivan Raiklin just sent me a message today detailing his run for US senate from Virginia.
So, there's one of us running for office... and running 22 miles per day he says.
Well, that's a lot of time too think I suppose.
So, there's one of us running for office... and running 22 miles per day he says.
Well, that's a lot of time too think I suppose.
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I think it is a combination of Godlessness, desensitization of death, the destruction of the values of an intact family, and liberal agenda. But I could be biased (of course)
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