Posted on Jan 28, 2017
Why does security now trump liberty? Is this complementary to the values of Founders?
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Security
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MAJ Bryan Zeski It is an excellent quote. What does it mean, and how is that meaning twisted and abused to gain a political outcome? Does it mean you get to endanger my freedom so you can get political power?
Much of the discussion on this topic seems to involve the temporary travel restriction on people coming from countries identified in the Obama administration's restrictions from 2015. We were assured then that background checks would be done on refugees.
Someone please tell me how you do a background check on a refugee from Somalia? Who do you contact? Who is the local police force? Who is the head of their government, or their equivalent to the Secretary of State? If you do get records, do you trust them?
The government is the local warlord. Still think we can trust these background checks?
Or consider Iran, who loves to chant, "Death to America." Well, at least we can identify their police force; not much different than the Gestapo. Do you trust their reports? Or Syria; after all, just because we have said Bashar Assad should be removed from power doesn't mean he'll hold a grudge, does it? Maybe we can trust reports from the governments of Libya or Yemen?
I am a fan of open immigration, but with one provision that you cannot immigrate to welfare. Prior to 1938 we had no national welfare system. People who came here came here to work, and they did work. And no matter how much the work they did was done in a sweat shop, they were glad to have it.
We also have an immigration system, and we have people who have waited 10 years or more to get to enter legally. The idea that we would say, "Well, if you got here illegally, but you had a child here, or started a business here, or demonstrated enough, we'll let you jump ahead of those who followed the law and are still waiting their turn", is an abomination.
Further, for the same expenditure, we could help TWELVE TIMES as many refugees in their own region, than we could help by letting them come here. So you tell me, is this really about helping people, or is it about political power?
Much of the discussion on this topic seems to involve the temporary travel restriction on people coming from countries identified in the Obama administration's restrictions from 2015. We were assured then that background checks would be done on refugees.
Someone please tell me how you do a background check on a refugee from Somalia? Who do you contact? Who is the local police force? Who is the head of their government, or their equivalent to the Secretary of State? If you do get records, do you trust them?
The government is the local warlord. Still think we can trust these background checks?
Or consider Iran, who loves to chant, "Death to America." Well, at least we can identify their police force; not much different than the Gestapo. Do you trust their reports? Or Syria; after all, just because we have said Bashar Assad should be removed from power doesn't mean he'll hold a grudge, does it? Maybe we can trust reports from the governments of Libya or Yemen?
I am a fan of open immigration, but with one provision that you cannot immigrate to welfare. Prior to 1938 we had no national welfare system. People who came here came here to work, and they did work. And no matter how much the work they did was done in a sweat shop, they were glad to have it.
We also have an immigration system, and we have people who have waited 10 years or more to get to enter legally. The idea that we would say, "Well, if you got here illegally, but you had a child here, or started a business here, or demonstrated enough, we'll let you jump ahead of those who followed the law and are still waiting their turn", is an abomination.
Further, for the same expenditure, we could help TWELVE TIMES as many refugees in their own region, than we could help by letting them come here. So you tell me, is this really about helping people, or is it about political power?
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Our freedoms were actually curbed with the first Patriot Act signed under Bush Jr and more added to that act under Obama. We are on a slippery slide. Right now, the current POTUS hasn't done anything that hasn't been done before. Nothing in the Bill Of Rights has been redacted. But if you are an American over seas, I wouldn't depend on the US coming to your aid anytime soon. And if your not American, well the rights of an American don't apply to you. I wish you were in the livingroom to chat this one out. You know I've always enjoyed throwing ideas around. Be safe Brother.
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SPC Randy Torgerson
LTC Mark Beattie - The problem is that I'm not willing to do that. Not unless I'm choosing what I'm sacrificing. I don't want you or anyone else to choose it for me. What's good for you might not be good for me, then I'm just sacrificing freedom for nothing.
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LTC Mark Beattie
I'm only expressing my views on RP, like everyone else. If you truly believe our freedoms or your freedom is in jeopardy, then you can express your discontent through your congressman or woman. If you believe the issue is with the administration, then do what you can to vote in a new administration that supports your views on personal freedom. I support the current administration's position on security, that's why I voted for Donald Trump and will vote for him again. You're welcome to criticize me for my views, but it does nothing more than allow you to vent your frustration. As for me, I'm done commenting on this topic. Mark B.
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SPC Randy Torgerson
LTC Mark Beattie - Hmm, seems we are misunderstanding each other. I also think the current administration is doing the right thing. I too voted for Trump. What I don't like is the FISA courts. I don't like certain intrusions for the name of security. I am hoping the Trump administration will address the more common sense approach to security. Which he is trying but we have people like the Chicago Mayer, New York Mayor, California Governor and a host of liberals including the media who try to undermine what is right and what is just.
So perhaps we actually agree and I didn't like the way you said "sacrifice freedom". Now its more clear.
So perhaps we actually agree and I didn't like the way you said "sacrifice freedom". Now its more clear.
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LTC Mark Beattie
Randy - Communications are typically the source of most misunderstandings. Glad we agree on the security of the Nation and on individual freedoms. Mark B.
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In the days of our founders, people didn't fly airplanes into buildings. Times change. Deal with it.
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SPC Tommy Dean
Brad Pitt..... Really???? You could at least give credit to David Michôd. He wrote the words that Pitt regurgitated.
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SPC Randy Torgerson
SPC Tommy Dean - Hey, I saw the previews for the movie, I didn't research everyone behind the scenes..... :)
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SPC Tommy Dean
SPC Randy Torgerson - Sorry. as of late, I have no use for the hollywood elite nor the bilge they spout.
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SPC Randy Torgerson
SPC Tommy Dean - Hmm, I completely agree with your elite and bilge comment..... But I do like my movie entertainment from time to time. War Machine looks pretty funny even if they are making fun of the current military and our missions. We can't take Hollywood seriously but we can enjoy the entertainment they provide. Unfortunately they seem to be taking themselves to seriously.....
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Complacent mentality kills. Doesn't help that the media can influence people to riot. People form opinions and think theirs is the only one that matters. There's no big picture for the country, more of a big picture for me and my life blah blah blah
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SP5 Robert Ruck
Unfortunately, so true Cpl. People are concerned only with their own beliefs and seem happy to censor anyone else's thoughts. This is not the U.S. I grew up in.
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Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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Interesting to read this discussion in the light of seven months. Seven months ago people interpreted the question in terms of the travel ban. But that issue is no longer the political hot topic the media is telling people to be concerned about. Instead we are supposed to worry about a handful of neo-nazi, racist, extremist skinheads (but not the opposite extreme antifa, BLM, & cries to "impeach" who certainly seem to be taking pages right out of the socialist/communist revolutionary play book). My sense is We The People are being played. To what end? I have my opinions. But I know who loses when any government gains more power, the common people. #LegalizeFreedom
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The call for security reads more like cowardice to me! Take all those high-priced ticket-selling prancing policemen, excreted from every orifice and crack from the ever multiple layers of the government, and let me strap on my own doggone pistol and carry the rifle of my choice. Better yet, let me say hello to my fellow man, and let me answer to my fellow man as to my choice of firearms and equipment! It would be impossible for it to be any worse than what exists today. At least, I would sleep better at nights!
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Security trumps liberty because we now have a couple of generations of people who take the liberties we have been blessed with for granted without understanding any of the responsibility that goes along with both using and defending those freedoms.
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SSG Norbert Johnson
You create your own security by exercising your Liberties/Freedoms/Rights. When you stand silent, you loose everything. Only the Belligerent have Rights, and only they have the freedom to Act in defending themselves and their fellow community members. I am not talking weaponized combat, but combat by requiring proof of authority. For example why do you need permission to live in your own home? The authority is Public Health and Safety... But is your home owned by the public or is it owned by a private individual? If Private, then do you require permission from the state to reside in your own home?
Security has no power over Liberty as there exists no authority superior to the Rights never granted to the purview of teh Government. To legislate such authority is in itself a colored Law, null and void upon its inception.
Security has no power over Liberty as there exists no authority superior to the Rights never granted to the purview of teh Government. To legislate such authority is in itself a colored Law, null and void upon its inception.
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Better yet, whatever happened to all of the militias who were supposed to be protecting the constitution. I guess they returned to the swamp that had spit them out
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