Posted on Jul 29, 2019
Capt Michael Wilford
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Please understand, I am NOT bagging on the Army here, I am simply asking a question based on my own observations. I served two tours on two different Army posts and witnessed first hand how lower enlisted soldiers (PV1 through SPC) interacted with soldiers of higher rank (CPL through SSG) and I found their lack of respect and lack of discipline to be a bit disturbing. So, my deeper question is this; is this perceived problem of discipline due to the size of the Army as compared to the Marine Corps where we do not have this type of discipline issue, is it due to smaller unit cohesion, or is it something else? I am writing a white paper on military discipline and any information will be helpful. Remember, at the end of the day, we are one military with different missions toward the same end goal, so please do not use this thread as a means to bash other branches of service. I have not done that to the Army; I have great respect for the Army and for its mission and I am simply looking for others' observations about discipline.
Posted in these groups: Discipline1 DisciplineEnlisted logo EnlistedUcmj UCMJ
Edited 6 y ago
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1SG Wayne Cannon
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When i first joined the US Army being a Vietnam Era Veteran i had those combat harden veterans that if you didn't follow the regulations you wear punished. Didn't need the UCMJ. your squad leaders could give you extra training. I turned over many rocks so they wouldn't get moon burnt. Then those types started to ETS. And then regulations started to change, you couldn't do this or that. And privates started to learn that. The same time our things outside started to weakin up. Like when our teachers could discipline their students. Same in the Army. One little thing they would run to the IG.
I had been in for about 12, 13 years i made E-7. Only one E-7 in the company under me so i wasn't the Jr. One had 2 Master Sgt. And a total of 7, E-7s large maintenance company. We had a Change of Command. Our 1SG only had 11days left and he was out. The new COMMANDER said he needed a new 1SG,in a meeting he was holding for all the NCOs. And thats when i really got the concept of ROAD. for those that don't know what that means. Retired on active duty. I raised my hand and became the new 1SG of that unit. And had a CSM that told all of them that they better follow my instructions. It wasn't easy but when your lower enlisted sees things like that it's not good. Plus the other branches had a policy that the Army didn't once and enlisted made Sergeant. They should be transferred. To many still buddies. They can't make the change. Plus the officers coming in are taught. Do not trust your NCOs. Those are just some of the problems. We could sit here all day.
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MSG Roberto Alomar
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A SMA friend of mine told me once, discipline and respect is not the fault of the Army...The Army is an institution. The fault is solely of the lack of courage and pride of the new NCO's and Officers that believe they are in charge. Corrected them if they fuckup or become disrespectful,l counsel them and send their butt home. it only takes two counseling's to send someone home. it does not take an ART 15 to take rank away from an E2,E3, or E4. the Commander promoted them with a 4187 so the same form can reduce their ass. been there done that many times when I was a 1SG. once you get your point across people start acting right or go home.
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MSG Roberto Alomar
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A SMA told me once, not to blame the Army for the lack of discipline or respect. The Army is an institution. The problem are the NCOs that lack the courage to correct or kick someone out if they don't make the cut
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CWO3 Bryan Luciani
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After my career I raised two sons that are currently serving. One is in the Army and after boot camp he came home and told me that he had never seen so much UN-checked disrespect in his life. He said the Army NCOs seem to not care at all when disrespected to their faces. I think it's a safe bet to assume that is the main problem. Zero discipline from day 1.
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SGT Mark Hasch
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I would say it's because of the E-4 mafia!!! Dude they control everything, seriously, it would be like pissing off your waitress who can cough up a slimy greener and spit it in your food just before bringing it out to you!!! This is why no one messes with them!!! That and they did away with "corporal punishment!!!/:0)", or for not allowing old school punishments by their next in command!!!
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SPC John Tacetta
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I'm a bit old school and may be out of touch, but I'd bet you were not around any STRAC units. If you're writing a paper on military discipline I suggest you spend some time around the combat brigades. During my time and in my units insubordination meant a quick trip to the brig!
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SGT Larry Green
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the younger generation have the problem,(in their defense,there has been a big mistake in their (upbringing))
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HA Dennis LaDow
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They get feed this left-wing liberal BS education all though school life and they think they can bring it with them when they inter the military, and they are shocked to find out it doesn't work in the military, so now they go around pissed because they can't have it their way and the military way.
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SFC Sean Funkhouser
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I agree whole heartedly. The military has standards in black and white that should be upheld. It’s easy to get back too but people are scared and don’t defend themselves withe policies, procedure and regulations.
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SSG Jason Stoner
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This is the exact reason I retired. I would have my Soldiers do the job the Army trained them to do in my PLT. Had on several occasions been told NO. When I conducted counseling and remedial action, I would get into trouble with the 1SG for doing my job the Army trained and expected of me in my title. I love the Army and do not regret anything. They need to stop catering to the "I am here, give me my trophy" generation and crack down on these undisciplined brats.
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