Posted on Sep 6, 2015
Why Does the Army Treat its Reservists and National Guard Soldiers Like Second Class Citizens?
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I've spent 37 years in the Army, in both the active and reserve components. Most of my career has been in the reserves. Regardless, I've consistently seen different "rules" and regs applied not to mention the never ending attitude on deployments that reservists and guardsmen are inferior to active component Soldiers.The active component gets promoted faster, has priority at required schools and typically treats reservists/guardsmen like second class Soldiers on deployments. I can give dozens of examples if needed but I'll save it for now. Bottom line is the Reserves/Guard constitute the bulk of the Army - the Army needs the Reserve/Guard and can't do without them so treat them as equals and not second class Soldiers. Give them the same opportunities for promotion and schools. And especially to the active component, quit assuming we are "inferior" Soldiers during deployments. We often outperform active duty Soldiers plus we bring a multitude of other skills to the table - we are cops, engineers, CEO's, nurses and so on. Let's make everything equitable.
Just to clarify, not all AC elements are like this, nor are all RC/NG elements "top shelf." This issue is a problem that has been around since when I joined the Army in 1978 - I'm sure it goes back even further. This post is about fixing attitudes, ending stereotypes and providing equal educational opportunities to RC/NG Soldiers that AC Soldiers enjoy.
Just to clarify, not all AC elements are like this, nor are all RC/NG elements "top shelf." This issue is a problem that has been around since when I joined the Army in 1978 - I'm sure it goes back even further. This post is about fixing attitudes, ending stereotypes and providing equal educational opportunities to RC/NG Soldiers that AC Soldiers enjoy.
Posted in these groups: 
Army Reserve
Army National Guard
Army Reserve Army National Guard
Edited 10 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 71
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CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) - our Reserve Component Soldiers are a very viable part of our mission! Soldiers from my unit are in 12 countries tonight spread across three continents, do you think for a minute we could be spread that thin and not rely on our full spectrum force, which includes our Reserve Component force? We not only incorporate them, we rely on them and trust them, they are our partners, sometimes you just have move past the stereotypical blinders and trust that people will do their jobs, they often bring many better practices or ways of doing things with them!
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MSG Thomas Currie
There was an old (1950's vintage) Air Force song "Goddamned Reserves" that pretty accurately summed up the situation as seen from the reserve side of things. The beginning goes like this "in peacetime the regulars are happy; yes, in peacetime they're anxious to serve; but just let them get into trouble & they call out the goddamned reserves"
On the other hand, the active force tends to look on the guard and reserves as "Weekend Warriors" with second-class equipment (whose fault is that), poor training, and no discipline.
Both sides have some truth in their opinions.
I can't speak directly for the current situation but from what I have seen and heard nothing really changed much about the active force leadership considering the guard and reserves as low quality fillers for whatever tough jobs were outside the road to glory.
What I can speak directly to is what the Army leadership did to ensure that neither the active force or the guard would take the mission of the guard seriously.
My last active duty assignment was with Readiness Group Atlanta, supporting the guard throughout Georgia, Florida, Puerto Rico, and parts of Tennessee and Alabama. At that time 24th ID at Fort Stewart was the "Rapid Deployment Force (Heavy)" -- the guys who were expected to provide the real combat power to back up the light forces (82nd Airborne). 48th Bde, Georgia National Guard, was the "roundout" brigade for the 24th ID.
According to all the plans, if we needed to deploy serious combat power somewhere, the 82nd would be immediately available, with the 24th ID right behind, either flying to use pre-positioned equipment or loading their Tanks and Bradleys on ships at Savanna. As soon as the two active force brigades of 24ID departed, 48th Bde would arrive at Fort Steward, draw their equipment, and move to follow on the next ships out of Savanna. Worst case, 48th Bde would be a couple of weeks behind the other two brigades arriving wherever needed based on the availability of transport. This wasn't just some wild fantasy, 48th Bde had deployed to the Middle East for regular training, and their tank battalion was the only NG roundout unit that had completed an NTC rotation as part of an active force brigade.
Then Iraq invaded Kuwait. And the first response at the Pentagon was that some staff officer ran to the book shelf, picked up the full set of CAPSTONE manuals, ran back to his desk, and promptly dropped those CAPSTONE manuals in the Round File.
Exactly as planned, we sent 82nd Airborne to Saudi Arabia to face off against a force of over 5000 tanks. Obviously a light division wasn't enough to handle that task, and we had a solid plan that called for sending 24th ID, but instead we sent another light division (101st).
Once the decision was made to use force to push Iraq out of Kuwait, we worked up the order of battle, determining which commanders would get that coveted ticket punch for a combat command. One thing we made damn sure of was that no national guard unit would be included.
On the other hand, the active force tends to look on the guard and reserves as "Weekend Warriors" with second-class equipment (whose fault is that), poor training, and no discipline.
Both sides have some truth in their opinions.
I can't speak directly for the current situation but from what I have seen and heard nothing really changed much about the active force leadership considering the guard and reserves as low quality fillers for whatever tough jobs were outside the road to glory.
What I can speak directly to is what the Army leadership did to ensure that neither the active force or the guard would take the mission of the guard seriously.
My last active duty assignment was with Readiness Group Atlanta, supporting the guard throughout Georgia, Florida, Puerto Rico, and parts of Tennessee and Alabama. At that time 24th ID at Fort Stewart was the "Rapid Deployment Force (Heavy)" -- the guys who were expected to provide the real combat power to back up the light forces (82nd Airborne). 48th Bde, Georgia National Guard, was the "roundout" brigade for the 24th ID.
According to all the plans, if we needed to deploy serious combat power somewhere, the 82nd would be immediately available, with the 24th ID right behind, either flying to use pre-positioned equipment or loading their Tanks and Bradleys on ships at Savanna. As soon as the two active force brigades of 24ID departed, 48th Bde would arrive at Fort Steward, draw their equipment, and move to follow on the next ships out of Savanna. Worst case, 48th Bde would be a couple of weeks behind the other two brigades arriving wherever needed based on the availability of transport. This wasn't just some wild fantasy, 48th Bde had deployed to the Middle East for regular training, and their tank battalion was the only NG roundout unit that had completed an NTC rotation as part of an active force brigade.
Then Iraq invaded Kuwait. And the first response at the Pentagon was that some staff officer ran to the book shelf, picked up the full set of CAPSTONE manuals, ran back to his desk, and promptly dropped those CAPSTONE manuals in the Round File.
Exactly as planned, we sent 82nd Airborne to Saudi Arabia to face off against a force of over 5000 tanks. Obviously a light division wasn't enough to handle that task, and we had a solid plan that called for sending 24th ID, but instead we sent another light division (101st).
Once the decision was made to use force to push Iraq out of Kuwait, we worked up the order of battle, determining which commanders would get that coveted ticket punch for a combat command. One thing we made damn sure of was that no national guard unit would be included.
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CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) With all due respect, I disagree with that premise. Understanding that in comparison, I have the third of your time in the Army, I have always been a mobilized reservist. In an honest comparison, I would say yes, the RC is more laxed with the Rules at times, but there is that experience in a civilian career that ups the ante. You can not compare an Active duty soldier that only knows the active duty side, to one that has knowledge of his military job, as well as other jobs experiences, and maybe a college degree. Usually RC units are more easily adaptable to an ever changing battlefield.
AC component usually forgets that we have 2-3 days a month to do what most of them do in 30 days, in addition to our regular jobs outside the military. We are more versatile when it comes to wearing multiple hats. Even sometimes, like my unit is presently experiencing, have a command that has no regard or knowledge of downtime to let troops recover. (meaning pulling 12-14 hr days every single drill weekend)
As a good example I can give you my unit's last AT operation, were we had to set up our level II medical facilities in the field, and be operational within 36 hours. Mind you we are not at 100% strength, more like 60%. Well, instead of 36 hours we were already up and ready in the first 24 hours, and able to start the training, in addition to do 2 more real life medical support missions to OCS training taking place in another location. In less than a week we proved to our command that we were able to meet the demands of our METL and SubMETL tasks 100%. It really came in handy that we had medics that were electricians, builders, and heavy equipment operators.
This was not easy to accomplish, but I am very proud that our soldiers were able to get the big picture of what we do in our unit.
I am not trying to put down the active component, but my personal experience is that as a single soldier, I have earned the respect of both AC and RC component commands. This has never been an issue with me, and this is more like that usual banter between our branches of service, because when the metal meets the meat, these preconceptions all die suddenly.
AC component usually forgets that we have 2-3 days a month to do what most of them do in 30 days, in addition to our regular jobs outside the military. We are more versatile when it comes to wearing multiple hats. Even sometimes, like my unit is presently experiencing, have a command that has no regard or knowledge of downtime to let troops recover. (meaning pulling 12-14 hr days every single drill weekend)
As a good example I can give you my unit's last AT operation, were we had to set up our level II medical facilities in the field, and be operational within 36 hours. Mind you we are not at 100% strength, more like 60%. Well, instead of 36 hours we were already up and ready in the first 24 hours, and able to start the training, in addition to do 2 more real life medical support missions to OCS training taking place in another location. In less than a week we proved to our command that we were able to meet the demands of our METL and SubMETL tasks 100%. It really came in handy that we had medics that were electricians, builders, and heavy equipment operators.
This was not easy to accomplish, but I am very proud that our soldiers were able to get the big picture of what we do in our unit.
I am not trying to put down the active component, but my personal experience is that as a single soldier, I have earned the respect of both AC and RC component commands. This has never been an issue with me, and this is more like that usual banter between our branches of service, because when the metal meets the meat, these preconceptions all die suddenly.
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CW3 (Join to see)
That's why I know I'm in the National Guard and while doing air assault missions like in the commercials would be awesome a lot of our units don't have the funding to plan hardcore training for the MDay guys. My response was soley based on my own experience being in the Reserve for 3 years, active duty for 8 and now in the National Guard for 2. When I was active duty I never treated reservists with any disrespect but I did notice that ANG and RC units are run more like a family then the AC thats why when I got off active duty I joined the Guard.
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SGT Bryon Sergent
CW3 (Join to see) - I was active duty for 3 years. We sat around and waited more often then not. We did however have training time. We spent 9 out of 12 months in the field. 2 days here, week there, 30 days on the occasion, always on the firing range for something, M-16, m249, m-60, m-203 and dragon training. We stayed busy as an Infantry unit. Adimin was done during the the day at times when ever needed. You could just run up to S-1 and do what ever, then the birth month review and bam done.
Now as national Guard, we get a weekend to do Weapons qual, then might get the the 249, 240 or the 50 on occasion, maybe a 203. Admin is usually done for the whole company in a weekend drill plus what we have to train on. Instead of just running up to S-1 shop and completing it, We train all day till chow time, then up til 0100 or 0200 to get all the BS paper work that needs to be done, then back up at 0500 to start training again.
I do not think that one component is better than the other, but with that being said, when we go to set up our AO and need some one to fix the generator, someone on the civilian side is a small engine repair and gets it running, or if we are out and the HMMWV has something go wrong, and maintenance is now where to be found, we get it running and then get it to them. Need power ran to something guarantee we have at least 1 contractor in the unit that is an electrician and we get it done. In my last unit I think we actually had an attorney in the unit! So we had all of our POA's and things done before we deployed! I know when I deployed right after 9/11 i had a soldier that had his landlord put a padlock on his apartment. His wife couldn't get in to there home to get their new born stuff. I happened to work at a jail. Guess who I knew, the District judge for the country, who was also our JAG officer. Called him and he had a court order faster than you can blink an eye. Had 3 country sheriff deputies there. When the landlord refused the court order not only was the door kicked in and her allowed in but the landlord went to jail and they got out of there lease (legally) and the landlord got a huge fine!
Now as national Guard, we get a weekend to do Weapons qual, then might get the the 249, 240 or the 50 on occasion, maybe a 203. Admin is usually done for the whole company in a weekend drill plus what we have to train on. Instead of just running up to S-1 shop and completing it, We train all day till chow time, then up til 0100 or 0200 to get all the BS paper work that needs to be done, then back up at 0500 to start training again.
I do not think that one component is better than the other, but with that being said, when we go to set up our AO and need some one to fix the generator, someone on the civilian side is a small engine repair and gets it running, or if we are out and the HMMWV has something go wrong, and maintenance is now where to be found, we get it running and then get it to them. Need power ran to something guarantee we have at least 1 contractor in the unit that is an electrician and we get it done. In my last unit I think we actually had an attorney in the unit! So we had all of our POA's and things done before we deployed! I know when I deployed right after 9/11 i had a soldier that had his landlord put a padlock on his apartment. His wife couldn't get in to there home to get their new born stuff. I happened to work at a jail. Guess who I knew, the District judge for the country, who was also our JAG officer. Called him and he had a court order faster than you can blink an eye. Had 3 country sheriff deputies there. When the landlord refused the court order not only was the door kicked in and her allowed in but the landlord went to jail and they got out of there lease (legally) and the landlord got a huge fine!
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I got to pull that one on a LTC. He told me he didn't want me providing anesthesia to him. I told him, "Sir, I can go get someone who doesn't do this often however, I do my army job 60-80 hours a week. I am a reservist that practices in my profession daily. I am pretty sure you want me to do it for you and not someone who does paperwork all day, every day."
He was convinced.
He was convinced.
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CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) I served for 37 years (one extra) there Chief and I experienced this as well, but I didn't let it take over my deployment. I was integrated with active duty component personnel and I made it clear as the Commander that I wouldn't tolerate (them, they, we, active duty over reserve, etc.). During that time period I made it very clear we all bled one color and that was "green". The attitude going in was one of inferior and the attitude going out was "One Team, One Fight". In my opinion senior leadership both on the officer side and senior NCO side are the ones that can make or break this attitude. I had senior officers (generals) and senior NCOs that knew we were the real deal and treated us just like everyone else. There is something to be learned from both (Reserve soldiers and learn from their active duty counterparts on those skills they get to train on 24/7 every month for 365 days a year and the Active Duty can learn valuable civilian skills they haven't been exposed to). If handled properly it can be a good experience for both and for me it comes down to leadership on both sides of the equation. Yes, I've had bad experiences too, but I corrected them very quickly. I told my Active Duty CSM on day one that I was active duty before he was out of diapers, so we can put that to rest right now - he got the message. Just my opinion Chief - don't shoot the messenger!
One other comment. I had more problems from a disciplinary standpoint with the ative duty during that deployment than with the reservist. No disrespect intended, but that is a fact!
One other comment. I had more problems from a disciplinary standpoint with the ative duty during that deployment than with the reservist. No disrespect intended, but that is a fact!
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SSG (Join to see)
I have never seen a Col go to MG in one shot. There are no more Brevet ranks for a while now, but in your case there are USERRA and ESGR that could have straightened your job situation, with a lawsuit, they are our advocates. That is given your orders were on title 10, section 12301, 12302, 12304, 333 or the most grave 12406. If it was a voluntary deployment then you probably were 12301, if voluntold then probably it was under sections 12302 or 12304. Any knowledge, and this is very easy to look up, with your orders, type, sections, kind of tell you who do you fall on. If you want to have a convo, we can do that by PM. I will be more than glad to guide you and go after your old civilian job boss, you may still have a chance for a lawsuit with advocates on your side.
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CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret)
Sir, to be clear, neither myself or Soldiers I've served with have ever let the AC's attitude towards us "take over my (our) deployment." We're professionals and deal with this all the time. We simply do the best job we can, which has always solved the problem. Our internal leadership ensures that our junior Soldiers understand the situation and that they need to focus on doing their job the best they can. We may have been cut off at the knees a couple times upon arrival in theater but we always rebound quickly.
The RC/NG Soldiers I've served with on deployments have always outperformed our AC counterparts. In one instance (doing counterintelligence/HUMINT OPS), we were actually investigated (informally) because we were generating far more usable intel than our AC counterparts. Bottom line - we were working harder. Additionally, the word got out about us and the AC combat arms elements out there began specifically requesting support from us RC/NG folks because we were making a difference - we generated substantial intel that captured/killed bad guys and saved coalition lives.
Please know I'm not shooting the messenger, just wanted to clarify an issue. I agree with everything you had to say and I appreciate the attitude you adopted regarding AC and RC/NG Soldiers working together. Both elements can learn from each other.
The RC/NG Soldiers I've served with on deployments have always outperformed our AC counterparts. In one instance (doing counterintelligence/HUMINT OPS), we were actually investigated (informally) because we were generating far more usable intel than our AC counterparts. Bottom line - we were working harder. Additionally, the word got out about us and the AC combat arms elements out there began specifically requesting support from us RC/NG folks because we were making a difference - we generated substantial intel that captured/killed bad guys and saved coalition lives.
Please know I'm not shooting the messenger, just wanted to clarify an issue. I agree with everything you had to say and I appreciate the attitude you adopted regarding AC and RC/NG Soldiers working together. Both elements can learn from each other.
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SFC Clark Adams
NG/AR Medics that were Nurses, Paramedics/EMTs were documented to have lower death rates in the MEDEVAC units than RC units. This find resulted in the complete overhaul of Flight Medic training to BRING THE AD Medics up to speed to be as competent as the RC Medics.
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Those that behave that way have either been informally indoctrinated or frustated by RC unorthodox methods of getting things done.
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CW3 Kevin Storm
SSG(P) Brian Kliesen - You have a poor support system, because school seats are split down the middle between NG/AR at least for WO's 50% of the classes go to each side, and the AR rarely doesn't fill their seats. Every year when the window opens for submitting people for school you need to be knocking for you and your people.
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SSG(P) Brian Kliesen
CW3 Kevin Storm - You are likely very correct, but with limited funding to attend classes and the support system not informing its soldiers of schools, we will never have those opportunities. WO's may have a support system, but we have only a handful in the entire Reserves. We have been told this year that due to funding cuts we can either go to a school or Annual training, but not both. Meanwhile we have officers and command that are required to take classes and training which suck up the limited resources that are available.
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SGT Bryon Sergent
SGT(P) (Join to see) - I have been in since 2010 and STILL do not have ASU's! Well you should have received them in Basic you say. Well I was issued dress greens, and when I got out of the guard they took them up! I returned to service after the ASU's where established. Well, still don't have them!
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Huh, I guess I am surprised that this is still an issue ... I was under the impression that the Reserves and National Guard commanded more respect from the Active components in the post-9/11 environment. Sadly, what you describe CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) is what I saw in the 80s and 90s.
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SGT Shawn Schweinberg
When I deployed to OIF in 2005 and replaced a National Guard Unit I saw a lot of what your talking about. I also saw a NG unit that wasn't really into the mission like we were. they didn't seem to be well trained and didn't go hunting for the enemy like we did. I think that is what made us see the NG in a negative way.
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SSG (Join to see)
Well GySgt, when I was an active duty soldier in the early 90's I look at the NG and Reserves as lazy and part time soldiers. But, when I left the active component, I had time left and joined the Army reserves and now I'm in the Guard. My opinion changed on both components. But, there are some soldiers who lack the inter fortitude to"Be ,Know,Do" and their are the folks that gave the Reserves and Guard that stigma.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
When my Reserve unit deployed in 2003 we became part of V Corps, our property books were signed over to V Corps STB, yet many times I was told by the V Corps STB SGM to report to my unit when I was part of V Corps. I fought that battle for the entire year we were deployed. Getting support was always an uphill battle. Might be different now, but I bet there is some out there.
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CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret)
SGT Shawn Schweinberg - Agreed, however, I think it depends on the unit. I've seen well trained units and not so well trained units, both active and reserve/guard. It often depends on the leadership - starting at the top.
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I don't know if the average Active Duty Joe in the trench sees the Reserves and NG as inferior, but I do suspect the Army as an organization does. Why that is, I don't know. Perhaps its natural to assume that those who do something fulltime are better than those who do a thing part-time; a reasonable argument, but I'm just hypothesizing.
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CW3 (Join to see)
It's kind of true, I have some friends who work in high places with people who wear stars on their chest and even they consider the reserves and national guard inferior because they dont fall under the combatant commands and therefore are not taken into consideration when new policies are developed. A part of me disagrees but on the other hand it is true, we are part time Soldiers and therefore do not necessarily need as much considerations as the full time 18th ABN CORPS type troops who stand ready to deploy at a moments notice.
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Simple answer: ignorance. I've been AD and NG currently. When I was AD there was all kinds of smack talked about RC troops. But when I went to war (as NG), not a single AD troop bitched cause without us, there wouldn't have been any rotating home after 12/9 months.
They can't understand that we have to meet the very same standards as they do for their careers while maintaining our civilian career as well.
They can't understand that we have to meet the very same standards as they do for their careers while maintaining our civilian career as well.
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1SG (Join to see)
I agree. I spent 10 years AD and the last 12 NG. I had the same thoughts about the NG until I joined and then I found out that most of the guys in my unit came from AD.
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LTC Hillary Luton
SFC (Join to see) Funny you should say that. I remember explaining to my AC counterparts what "Love Time" is. It absolutely floored them that we would actually put in time without getting paid. When I explained to them that it was sometimes necessary in order to get the job done, especially as a commander, I sometimes got replies like, "I would never do that". Made me wonder who was more dedicated to the uniform.
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SFC (Join to see)
Exactly, I personally spend my own time doing the admin stuff whilst maintains a FT career/family. As a leader you have to so you can actually LEAD during IDT periods. Especially when ramping up to deploy.
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LTC Hillary Luton
Exactly. I remember when I was a company commander, my reserve unit was in between my civilian job and home, so I would leave home early to stop by the unit or stop by when I got off work to sign paperwork, have meetings, etc. It had to be done, so we do it. I never really thought about the fact that I was putting in several hours without pay, I was only thinking about what had to get done so we would be ready for IDT.
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As a reservist, guardsman and active duty solder I can say that there are great soldiers and horrible soldiers in all three components. That being said the one trend I observed is that active duty soldiers tend to be more observant to customs and courtesies and be more respectful to senior personnel. Does this make them better operationally? Probably not. But appearance is everything
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LTC Hillary Luton
I totally agree CW3 (Join to see) about good and bad in all and I agree that Guard and Reserve tend to be a little more lax when it comes to customs and courtesies; however, when I see RC/NG juggle a full-time job, school, family, possibly a part-time job and duty, I'm not going to break my back making sure a Soldier "Looks good" while he's busting his butt.
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CW3 (Join to see)
Agree 100% Ma'am. I have the utmost respect for my fellow guardsman who take the time off work and away from their families to come to drill, AT and to deploy. In my experience recently with the National Guard its been more like a family to me then almost every unit I was in on the active duty side.
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So true! I hung an ARNG banner up by my office. I was told that it could be an EO complaint! I was later asked by the XO, under duress I'm sure, to take it down because it was offensive and unprofessional. ( this was a professionally done cloth banner by ARNG) I took it down and put it across my wall in my office. I'm proud to serve in the ARNG and consider us to be the best suited, adaptive leaders that the Army is privileged to have!
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