Posted on May 30, 2015

Why doesn't the APFT have provisions for injuries incurred during the test?
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If you are taking an APFT, and roll your ankle during the run, and as a result you run slower to the finish line and fail, should this still count as a failure? I read Chapter 14 of FM 21-20 and the only mention of injuries I could find was that the injury could be annotated in comments box. I feel as thought in this scenario, the APFT test should not be counted against the injured soldier. What are your thoughts?
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 28
I don't think there need to be any "provisions" in any Army publication for injuries! I have seen too many Soldiers faking injuries in order to get out of the APFT. The Army publications are written the way they are in order to leave room for each commander to run their organization. All units are not created equal!
In my opinion, it goes back toward leadership. If I have anPT stud scoring 250 or higher and out of the blue they score a 181 then I will try to apply logic and figur out why. Injuries happen and are not predicatable but it's up to leaders to not be cookie cutter leaders. Writing in the comments that the Soldier sustained an injury during the APFT will give the next grader a hint. If we use the paperwork properly, then a pattern can be established for everyone!
In my opinion, it goes back toward leadership. If I have anPT stud scoring 250 or higher and out of the blue they score a 181 then I will try to apply logic and figur out why. Injuries happen and are not predicatable but it's up to leaders to not be cookie cutter leaders. Writing in the comments that the Soldier sustained an injury during the APFT will give the next grader a hint. If we use the paperwork properly, then a pattern can be established for everyone!
PV2 Walker, this can be a tough one. I'd first ask what's the difference between an injury and an "owie?" Not exactly a professional term, but one I used to ask my football players. An injury prevents you from completing the mission and is not something that feels better a day or three later. Some injuries can't be faked, while others can. When is a PT failure not a failure? When you pass your APFT with strong scores both before and after the injury. If you barely get by and suddenly have an injury on the test, it doesn't bode well for your credibility, professionalism, or Warrior Ethos.
I've seen this happen before.
Good leadership didn't hold it against the soldier (he averaged 250-270) when he was better he took another APFT.
Not so great leadership threw him (different soldier) under the bus.
Good leadership didn't hold it against the soldier (he averaged 250-270) when he was better he took another APFT.
Not so great leadership threw him (different soldier) under the bus.
SPC (Join to see)
We had a PT stud dislocate his shoulder during a PT test.... Was flagged and lost his P status. Ended up having surgery, and discharged....
After reading all replies to this question, it saddens me to see such a low level of expectations and trust from the leadership towards their soldiers.
Most here assume that soldiers will fake injuries or will abuse the possibility of having a retest if injured during the APFT.
Somewhere I was taught that soldiers are a reflection of their leadership, so if in everyone else's experiences you have "cheating/abusing" soldiers, that tells me that they have not been taken care of in the first place, or else they wouldn't have to resort to those tactics.
If a soldier claims an injury during the APFT, he/she should be taken to the Aid Station right away and properly diagnosed. If the injury is real, a retest is scheduled and end of story. If the injury is just an owie or faked, then the soldier has failed his/her APFT and a counseling will ensue, and end of story.
No need to assume the worst of soldiers.
Most here assume that soldiers will fake injuries or will abuse the possibility of having a retest if injured during the APFT.
Somewhere I was taught that soldiers are a reflection of their leadership, so if in everyone else's experiences you have "cheating/abusing" soldiers, that tells me that they have not been taken care of in the first place, or else they wouldn't have to resort to those tactics.
If a soldier claims an injury during the APFT, he/she should be taken to the Aid Station right away and properly diagnosed. If the injury is real, a retest is scheduled and end of story. If the injury is just an owie or faked, then the soldier has failed his/her APFT and a counseling will ensue, and end of story.
No need to assume the worst of soldiers.
SSG Linda Holt
It's been awhile but, as I recall, that's exactly what happened when someone did fall or sprain something during the test or regular PT. They went to the health clinic, got a "Profile" until they were healed-up and then had a retest. In fact, soldiers were routinely given a retest for failing the APFT even without an injury being involved. I'm pretty sure they had about 90 days to retest
SFC (Join to see)
SGT Rojas, I agree to an extent what you state. As a Senior Leader I have seen all types of Soldiers come through the ranks and in most cases you will always see lower enlisted who are the ones "faking injuries". I agree with the "direct reflection of their leadership" statement because I use it every time I brief my Soldiers because I don't like childish attitudes.
In my experience, people that fake injuries do not last long in the Army and are clinging to any line of hope before getting to the end of their line and moving out and on. The ARs and the FMs are there to guide, but the only units that have issues like these use the regulation to the T and have little or no common sense and gavre higher echelons that correct this.
Example, there was an E5 in a unit that was malingering and was trying to get out of a PT Test. There was a company APFT conducted and he did not show up as directed. He showed up when they where conducting the H&W (and yes this was a little time ago) and his PSG grabbed the Soldiers needed to conduct the APFT and this E5. He took the APFT but in the second lap out of 4 in the run event he collapsed. The Soldier went to the ER in an ambulance and the COC wanted to flag him. They put in the 705 that he suffered an injury and the he did not complete the run event. When it reached the BN S1 to process the flag the S1 NCOIC rejected the flag, notified the CSM and informed the COC that it cannot be done.
BLUF, every unit is not the same and every Soldier is not the same. Teach, coach and mentor is our job. We have to take care of Soldiers and ensure they are doing right. It is my duty and yours to ensure they are set up for success to be able to take your job in the future and mine.
In my experience, people that fake injuries do not last long in the Army and are clinging to any line of hope before getting to the end of their line and moving out and on. The ARs and the FMs are there to guide, but the only units that have issues like these use the regulation to the T and have little or no common sense and gavre higher echelons that correct this.
Example, there was an E5 in a unit that was malingering and was trying to get out of a PT Test. There was a company APFT conducted and he did not show up as directed. He showed up when they where conducting the H&W (and yes this was a little time ago) and his PSG grabbed the Soldiers needed to conduct the APFT and this E5. He took the APFT but in the second lap out of 4 in the run event he collapsed. The Soldier went to the ER in an ambulance and the COC wanted to flag him. They put in the 705 that he suffered an injury and the he did not complete the run event. When it reached the BN S1 to process the flag the S1 NCOIC rejected the flag, notified the CSM and informed the COC that it cannot be done.
BLUF, every unit is not the same and every Soldier is not the same. Teach, coach and mentor is our job. We have to take care of Soldiers and ensure they are doing right. It is my duty and yours to ensure they are set up for success to be able to take your job in the future and mine.
I was doing the sit-up event and had a hernia, my 1SG said she was going to throw the test out but when it came to re-enlistment time guess what the command said I was flagged because I failed my record APFT. I agree with you that a legitimate injury that occurs during the APFT should be taken into account and not held against the Soldier. However, the Army does not always use common sense and logic when writing FM and AR.
1SG (Join to see)
Doctrine writers cannot take every possible scenario into account. It is on the leadership to apply common sense. If there were a provision about injuries sustained during an APFT, the unfortunate truth is that Soldiers would take advantage of it in an attempt to get over. Either way, you wind up with less than desirable results. Bottom line is that leaders need to do their jobs.
No. Get injured, see the medic. Medic says you're actually injured, then soldier up, drive on and take it again when you're healed up. I injured my back on the situps during a APFT at Carson (Fell back on a rock), and still ran. Ran slower than all hell, but still passed (if only by seconds). Come to find out, i had chipped one of by vertebrae. the chipped piece is still floating around somewhere back there. It doesnt hurt, so I leave it alone.
I have never understood why an injury is an automatic failure. If a Soldier gets injured in the execution of duty, saddling her/him with a failing grade is hardly expedient in my opinion. It was probably done to discourage cheating, but I will stand by my opinion of it not being expedient
The regulations are a guide or framework for leaders to work with; if every single option were covered then there would be no room for leaders to apply discretion to situations.
If you're on patrol and roll your ankle, you still have to finish the patrol. You're still out there with your team.
It's also written like that to allow commanders to maintain discretion in making decisions. That's a commanders call.
It's also written like that to allow commanders to maintain discretion in making decisions. That's a commanders call.
I commend you on doing research but that's the wrong FM. It's FM 7-22 that is the new PRT Manuel. If you get legitimately injured and it's to such an extent it keeps you from passing then I don't think it should count. I also think it's a leadership decision. If you have good leadership that takes good care of its people then they usually do you a solid and understand the circumstances. Shit happens.
Imagine for a minute that this was possible. How many people do you think would "roll" their ankle as soon as they realize they won't make time on a run? How many would suddenly have "shoulder pain" on the push-ups and "lower back pain" on the setups? Then the overload on the medical system as they all go to sick call to try to prove their fake injuries.
The regs are written in such a way as to grant commanders a great deal of leeway in instances where regs don't provide exactly instructions.
The regs are written in such a way as to grant commanders a great deal of leeway in instances where regs don't provide exactly instructions.
SPC (Join to see)
SFC it is quite easy to roll an ankle also they give us PAs and free medical to determine weather or not someone is faking I rolled an ankle the first think my Nco thought was I was faking it all comes down to knowing your soldier how the hell could I fake that injury look at my ankle
I can sympathize with a true injury but the way that APFTs are conducted these days I don't see how it would occur. I will state something that may seem insensitive, I have taken PT test after 24 hour duty because of poor planning and also under the weather but I have always pride myself with being able to pass an APFT at any moment. My mantra, the more I sweat in training, the less I will bleed in battle. I tackle every APFT as if I am aiming for the extended scale that way even if I was under duress I would never drop to the 60 percent line.
They can count it as a diagnostic but that is up to your chain of command. Also if you were injured during and apft that made you fail they might take that into consideration but once again that is up to your chain of command
MSG (Join to see)
"legally" cannot change what it is. but I see your point and say, hooah. take care of the troops. give them the benefit of the doubt.
I'll echo SSG Derrick L. Lewis on that...great question.
Honestly, there should be a provision for that in the FM, but to my knowledge, there is not. I have seen good soldiers that regularly get 270- 300 on the APFT fail because they got hurt during. Next thing you know, they're out with the fatties doing special population PT in the afternoon.
Honestly, there should be a provision for that in the FM, but to my knowledge, there is not. I have seen good soldiers that regularly get 270- 300 on the APFT fail because they got hurt during. Next thing you know, they're out with the fatties doing special population PT in the afternoon.
SGT (Join to see)
It's awesome how Soldiers have a skewed definition of "fatty." I've always been "fat" - ~200 pounds at 5'10" - needing to get taped.
SFC (Join to see)
What I mean are those so overweight that it is impossible to actually pass the APFT or even perform your job. I have guys in my unit that are stellar, but have to get taped every time.
SGT (Join to see)
I knew what you meant, SSG Walker. It was a joke but not directed toward your statement.
If injured during APFT, then allow the soldier to go to a real sick, and then when healed, retest him or her.
I once scored a 259 (100PU/100SU). I normally out ran the platoon but failed my run. My LT came up and asked if I was feeling ok just as I started to vomit. He had the 1SG not but me on extra PT and just retake the test in a few weeks.
Based on the circumstances and proctor, its just the time completed, you should get an opportunity. on the next pt test offer.
No not in the least bit. Then you would have guys claiming an injury while on the run. You either run through it or you take the fail and retake it.
I agree with those saying that the regulations leave plenty of room for Commanders to have discretion. If malingering is a big issue, it is just as easy to have the Soldier undergo a medical exam immediately and if the Soldier is found to be in good enough condition, they should be administered another PT test within a reasonable amount of time. If they are found to have a serious but recoverable injury, then they should be given a profile and another chance after they have healed. This is definitely an art vs science of command question, but a good one.
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How do we know they were real? Because the soldier went to the Aid Station and proper diagnosis was made.
I have also seen soldiers get injured and nothing was done to see about proper treatment/follow up, ie. they were either forced to continue injured or simply left standing there with a failed APFT.
The point about leadership is valid, but the issue remains when the leadership fails, which is why there should be a provision that addresses this situation.
Aggravating a soldier further because they are forced to continue their APFT injured is not only reckless but it demonstrates that said leadership is more concerned about hitting their numbers than taking care of their soldiers..