Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
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Carbine backwards mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited 10 y ago
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SSgt Nicholas Merchant
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Its funny I was stationed at a nuke base as SF when the base went into excersise to upload b52s the entire base was mobilized and used wd had a HUMV with a cook in it who decided to play with his m14 like a toy a round was fired next to the drivers ear, there is no simple answer here because every base has a different mission and different needs all i know is weapons training in basic is not dnough
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TSgt James Carson
TSgt James Carson
>1 y
Funny. Twice we have Security policemen play quick draw on duty and shot one another. Once out of the hospital, they were court marshelled, fined and reduced in rank. The military used to take fire arms safety seriously.
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TSgt James Carson
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I was qualified with rifle and pistal when I was in the US Air Force. Since 1969 to 1991. My primary AFSC was Aircraft Structural repair. I was also a crew chief on A-10A 77-0270 for four years at RAF Wood bridge, Egland. I was part of bas e security with a rifle several times and at differant bases. This was only a very few job assignments I had when I was in the Air Force. I don't know what people do these days. I guess they might just do a 9 to 5 job schedule now for all I know. We worked 72 hours at a time many times.
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TSgt James Carson
TSgt James Carson
>1 y
We often went TDY, and sometimes had to perform security duties while on station at our temperary duty bases.
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SrA Client Systems
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My units was very strict on weapons qualifications because we deployed a lot. if you failed after the third try, you could kiss your career good buy even if you were a outstanding Airmen. This was around the time like last year when the military was cutting back on the needed soldiers to save on cost, so if you failed in a certain area they would find away to get rid of you and my fate was failure of weapons qualification.

Many units are starting to get stricter, and if you can't shoot you become useless. I enlisted in 2012 and was honorable discharge around November of 2015. I passed PT and CDC'S but Failed CBT'S and Weapons Training with M4 Rifle so a decision was made to cut the rest of my contract short. I should have took extra lessons outside of my unit after my failures their were no excuses because the area Lived around had plenty of shooting ranges including some with m4 rentals. I guess the moral to the story is you live and you learn .
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Cpl Ray Frigerio
Cpl Ray Frigerio
>1 y
what was your rifle range like? we had to qualify from 200, 300 and 500 meters with iron sights.
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I'm going to say it was about 200 with the M4 RIFLE and we used all the rifle positions and close up range shooting techniques. Once you hit the 200 range and qualified then you also had to also qualify with up close shooting which was done with the gas mask, and that was a separate qualification. Some people in my unit would pass the regular range qualification, but fail the up close shooting range called reactionary shooting which is within 5 foot of the enemy because the Gas mask acted as a hindrance, so many Airmen would have to retest on the part that failed.

Those with special jobs and deployed to certain missions would have to qualify with the M9 hand-gun as well.
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MSgt Harold Robinson
MSgt Harold Robinson
>1 y
Basic training for me was at Sampson AFB in 1952, a former Navy Recruit Training Center. The USAF took it over in 51 until the end of the Korean War. I was a good shot growing up in a local rod and gun club in the Bronx, NYC. I qualified on an M1 .30 caliber carbine and fired at the top of my class. The target distance was 200 meters and we fired in the basic three positions. We loaded our own mag with clips. Many older guys used the term clips later on to represent magazines :-) Some still do..........The air force was pretty new in those days and we used buku army manuals for most field activities. My oh my, where did all the time go by to!
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SrA Client Systems
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Sorry to Say my fellow veterans, but Airmen now into today's Airforce must qualify at least in the Airguard unit I was in. I know for fact. I fail qualifications three times due to my own fault and was one of the main reasons why I got the boot besides not getting the CBT'S done on time. I was discharge under honorable all because I didn't take weapons qualifications seriously by practicing at the local range after failing.
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Cpl Ray Frigerio
Cpl Ray Frigerio
>1 y
we had a low impact , cheap way of practicing called " s
napping in "
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Im going to say it was about 200 meters with the M4 RIFLE and we used all the rifle positions and close up range shooting techniques. Once you hit the 200 range and qualified then you also had to also qualify with up close shooting which was done with the gas mask, and that was a separate qualification. Some people in my unit would pass the regular range qualification, but fail the up close shooting range called reactionary shooting which is within 5 foot of the enemy because the Gas mask acted as a hindrance, so many Airmen would have to retest on the part that failed.

Those with special jobs and deployed to certain missions would have to qualify with the M9 hand-gun as well.
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MSgt everything you have said is correct and hasn't change since 2012 when I shipped off to Boot camp. The living in the tent part is called Beast-Week which simulates a deployed environment in the middle east. Also these simulated Middle East environments are continually practiced at one's duty station as well, for at least one five day weekend out of the year. I know this because my Airguard Unit participated in these drills
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MSgt Harold Robinson
MSgt Harold Robinson
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Thank you for your service Jason.
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Lt Col Instructor Navigator
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I think it's because of the role the Air Force is expected to play. The whole point of aircraft is to launch them from safe areas and fly them into combat. If the enemy is "knocking at your door", then your aircraft are already at risk. For combat vehicles, they're much more fragile than your average Abrams tank or MRAP. It doesn't take much to put an aircraft out of commission.

Bottom line, if your average Air Force personnelist or comm guy has become part of your front line force, you have more problems than whether or not they are qualified to shoot.
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A1C Misty Henry
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Ya know, I wondered that myself! We only had to qualify in basic in 1995, and never again.
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
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I remember back in my early days in the AF I had to shoot again when I got to my base. I had got expert but they said I was lucky. Even though the guy next to me got pulled out of the line in the last half of the firing. And I was last guy on the line. I got in good with some M.P.s via some Army Cook candidates at Fort Lee, The Quartermaster School. I got invited to go to the range to fire as they had some open slots. I fired expert again.. a Lt Col was there who verified it,
Nope doesn't count, it wasn't a AF group. I kept the target though for keepsake purpose.. that was back in '71. I had join AF Reserve in '70 and that was when I first got expert.. I was scheduled to go to range at Wright-Pat I think or am Army camp not far from there. Had some nasty weather that weekend.. firing cancelled, so I missed out. The next spring I got opportunity to go Active AF. I took it, got to my base and I talked to some Security Specialists..they said let us talk to our Supervisor, maybe he can find a slot on the firing line.. one of them hinted at a bribe(not money but coffee and pastries..). I said I'm just an A1C like you guys, I have no control over that .. I did talk to Sarge at D.H. And he got me a half can coffee and some pastries for the training staff.. I got my slot.. I fired and got expert again.. great firing weather, clear day .. when we were done I got asked to step out and away for a few minutes.. I could see the timbers shake on that building.. the Instructor gave me my paper to take back. It was in a envelope.. I didn't find out until I got back to Squadron.. a few days later, i thought it was bad news.. Tng Sgt. Came by D.H. and gave me the word and gave me a pkg. it had the AF Ribbon for shooting. He said save it for Cmdr.'s call, we'll award it there.. They
Handed me one, not knowing I already had one. The 1Sgt. Asked me how I got
A slot to fire.. I told him.. he just nodded and walked away.. it seemed they had been trying to get slots for 3 months and here comes a Cook and he gets to fire 2 weeks after he gets on base.. S'thing not right.. the matter got dropped, Cmdr. said no use in brooding over it.. it's done !..
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SSgt Darla Adams
SSgt Darla Adams
>1 y
Air Force is not a front line group and is not based in front. The Air Force personnel that assist in guarding those army bases that are in the hot zone are qualified with the weapons they carry. I think that's the short answer. It's like why isn't the whole navy weapons qualified.............same reason.
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
SSgt Boyd Herrst
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Back in my day ('70s to '80s only medical personnel did not have to.
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
SSgt Boyd Herrst
>1 y
Great answer, Darla !
SSgt Darla Adams -
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MSgt John Darchangelo
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As a retired Air Force member, I prefer the M-249. Yes, I know how to use it. If one isn't available, I'll take an M-60..
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TSgt James Carson
TSgt James Carson
>1 y
You and everyone else can argue about wepons all day, but if you can't hit a barn door at ten yards what good are you or the wepon. That's why I am behind the 2nd ammendment. Practice makes perfect. Think of the amount of ammunition spent in fire fights that could have been put to better use. Weapons are tools like those you usually have at home. Airmen could have saved their own lives if granted the use of firearms.
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PO2 Kristy Williams
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Hey! Sorry not all of us in the navy know any of that either.
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Sgt Terry W Drake
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Mike Christ married my daughter. But to respond to the comment about weaponry, I was deemed an expert in the field and won the Florida marksmanship challenge in 1969.
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