Posted on May 28, 2015
Why don't all members of the Air Force have to be fully qualified to be a rifleman in case of hostile events?
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I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 907
I always took my time at going to the Range seriously.
I agree with you though.. the USAF when I joined in 1984 told me that the Army clears the ground and the Air Force Builds the base... and if it gets dire.. you might need to know the use of a M-16/M-4 rifle to defend the installation, but that is only if the Security Police (Before Security Forces) were not able to do the job.
But later in the late 1990's that attitude changed and I was sent to the Air Mobility Warfare Center three times for "deployment training" were we actually went out and trained in tactics, up to and even using mock battles in MILES gear. We were taught that the Army no longer has the assets to "protect" the USAF personnel, and we would have to do the jobs ourselves.
But the vast majority of the USAF were still doing their job to support the mission to support the war fighters.. the Pilots. After I retired.. I was glad to see that Basic Training were finally having trainees actually have rifles and the manual of arms.. not just a Dry Fire and Wet Fire day like when I was in basic training.
I agree with you though.. the USAF when I joined in 1984 told me that the Army clears the ground and the Air Force Builds the base... and if it gets dire.. you might need to know the use of a M-16/M-4 rifle to defend the installation, but that is only if the Security Police (Before Security Forces) were not able to do the job.
But later in the late 1990's that attitude changed and I was sent to the Air Mobility Warfare Center three times for "deployment training" were we actually went out and trained in tactics, up to and even using mock battles in MILES gear. We were taught that the Army no longer has the assets to "protect" the USAF personnel, and we would have to do the jobs ourselves.
But the vast majority of the USAF were still doing their job to support the mission to support the war fighters.. the Pilots. After I retired.. I was glad to see that Basic Training were finally having trainees actually have rifles and the manual of arms.. not just a Dry Fire and Wet Fire day like when I was in basic training.
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The Navy is just as bad. Even with 30 years in most sailors will be found to have never touched a small arm since boot camp. Not all duty is on ships, we do have land based facilities that would need small arms capable personnel if attacked.
The only exceptions are Gunners Mates, Bosun's Mates, Master At Arms, SEABEEs and SEALs. If there are others I don't know who they are.
The only exceptions are Gunners Mates, Bosun's Mates, Master At Arms, SEABEEs and SEALs. If there are others I don't know who they are.
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In Basic I fired 36 rounds from an M-16, I was sent to Germany after Tech School. When I processed in I signed a sheet of paper and was told to sign beside my rifle number. When I signed out for my discharge I was ask if the signature beside the rifle number was mine? I said yes and that was the only time I knew I had a weapon assigned to me.
I joined the Army National Guard ,an qualified in the M-16, 45, M-60, M-2 50Cal., and the old grease gun. I qualified with the TOW, LAE, Javelin . Air Force weapins training is a farce.
I joined the Army National Guard ,an qualified in the M-16, 45, M-60, M-2 50Cal., and the old grease gun. I qualified with the TOW, LAE, Javelin . Air Force weapins training is a farce.
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I enlisted in the AF Reserve in '70 and became a Cook.. I qualified in basic on the M-16, later on 38 for when I was on Honor Guard. At a later time I got assigned to the base hospital, j as on Honor Guard there also. Thre seems to be a prob
With them about me being qualufied on the 38 because I was assigned to the hospital and would be a non-combatant,
They said it was ok being on firing detail
Because we fired blanks.. but I couldn't be firing team NCO because the .38 had live rounds.. it was a.big todo over it all..
I just kept it quiet about the times I was
Firing team NCO.. I had to use my regular days off to get time at the range. One of the diet techs asked me where I was going in my fatigues and I told him Honor Guard practice.. at the range, Igor to fire the .38.. I wanted to see him run up to the
Hospital and tattle.. I'm on the Guard and
They'd just have to live with it.. I enjoy
Firing and that is that !
With them about me being qualufied on the 38 because I was assigned to the hospital and would be a non-combatant,
They said it was ok being on firing detail
Because we fired blanks.. but I couldn't be firing team NCO because the .38 had live rounds.. it was a.big todo over it all..
I just kept it quiet about the times I was
Firing team NCO.. I had to use my regular days off to get time at the range. One of the diet techs asked me where I was going in my fatigues and I told him Honor Guard practice.. at the range, Igor to fire the .38.. I wanted to see him run up to the
Hospital and tattle.. I'm on the Guard and
They'd just have to live with it.. I enjoy
Firing and that is that !
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Money. That is it. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. The Army used to require even the clerks and jerks in the Puzzle Palace to qualify on the rifle range, but last century that was changed to only those who had an individually issued weapon. Money. Less bullets, less cost, less wear and tear on weapons. More time behind desks doing important paperwork, less time on the range playing grab ass and doing "army stuff, sir!"
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I was active duty in the AF for 8 years. I started as a weapons maintenance technician. Basically I loaded bombs and ammo on aircraft and maintained the weapons systems of the aircraft. We were required to qualify annually with our rifles, while I was assigned to fixed wing aircraft. When I went to the CSAR (combat search and rescue) side still doing the same job, we were required to qualify alot more but we also carried an M9 at all times when we had our weapons vault open and when the helicopters had weapons loaded on them. So, some of us that are not SF do qualify and do carry weapons daily.
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Take the Naval Seabees as an example. I was a heavy equipment operator but had to train with the Marines for combat duty. In Vietnam we had to man our own bases perimeter and if attacked in the field would have to defend our positions. Could the Air Force have the same training?
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I see your point however back in the day weren't all Marines as Army personnel were primary infantry? I carried the M-16/M-4 for 22 years of my 25 year AF career. It was easy to see not everyone in the USAF was comfortable with a weapon. However, as a SPS/SF member, I had extensive training for years on all weapons in the USAF inventory. There are many specialty codes in the AF. I bet a lot of SFS members would be unfamiliar with tool of other AFSC trades. Just for thought....
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I would agree with you. I think everyone should be taught how to handle a weapon. Me I'm old school S.P K-9
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Amen, bro! As a Security Forces veteran myself, my thoughts exactly, ESPECIALLY in this post-9/11 world we live in!
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