Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
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Carbine backwards mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited 9 y ago
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MSG Brad Sand
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Wow, I was not aware of this. Puts some comments I have seen from those in the Air Force in context.
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SFC Tony Bennett
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While I was contracting in Afghanistan, I met several Air Force personnel who were COMPLETELY UNARMED. I even asked what were they supposed to do if bad guys were coming over the fence. Said the SP's were there to handle it. Mind you this is in an active war zone.....
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Capt Al Parker
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Depends on the job, when I was in TAC I had to be qualified on "M1 Carbine", also when I was in SAC in a Prime Beef unit (additional duty) I had to be qualified with weapon
weapons and site protection. Back then all basics had weapons training. Even in the ADC at radar sites I was expected to handle an M1.
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SSgt Jason Lindbeck
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As a retired CATM guy I can promise you that A: all USAF personnel are required to qualify with the m4/m16 before entering a warzone on deployment (barring special circumstances or requirements for non combatancy such as a Chaplain) and B: Security Forces Airmen will be both the best at firing and the very, very worst at firing. This is because for some unfortunate reason security forces has become the catch-all for idiots who failed in other places.
To focus specifically on your question, though, it is possible to skip firing during basic training. It is also possible in certain career fields to make it to Chief without ever touching a gun, provided you never deploy. This means that lack of experience can cause confusion and the appearance of idiocy. The important thing is to move past it without calling undue attention, correct the error, and help build muscle memory.
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SSgt Samuel Johnson
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I started my career in a FACP or Forward Air Control Party in Germany. EVERYONE had a weapon and knew how to operate it. Later I PCSed to a NORAD SOC in Arizona. I initially thought, "no weapons"? Later I realized, our mission was different. We took out enemy forces WAYout there. I sat in Arizona and watched intercepts hundreds of miles off of the California coast. The stress of military aircraft in near proximity to 747's with 200+ passengers on board, trying to make pilots do precisly what you want to avoid collisions, led me to believe this was no place for weapons ready for the grabbing.

So, I see everyone's thoughts but understand the USAF has many different environments to work in. I was a grunt in a USAF uniform and a blue suiter too, in two different environments. Qualification in both scenarios is a good idea, but in reality, a hidden or controlled environment, I'll yield my weapon to the SP's if they need backup though, I was ready, capable and willing.
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MSgt Frank Martin
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Edited 7 y ago
I always took my time at going to the Range seriously.

I agree with you though.. the USAF when I joined in 1984 told me that the Army clears the ground and the Air Force Builds the base... and if it gets dire.. you might need to know the use of a M-16/M-4 rifle to defend the installation, but that is only if the Security Police (Before Security Forces) were not able to do the job.

But later in the late 1990's that attitude changed and I was sent to the Air Mobility Warfare Center three times for "deployment training" were we actually went out and trained in tactics, up to and even using mock battles in MILES gear. We were taught that the Army no longer has the assets to "protect" the USAF personnel, and we would have to do the jobs ourselves.

But the vast majority of the USAF were still doing their job to support the mission to support the war fighters.. the Pilots. After I retired.. I was glad to see that Basic Training were finally having trainees actually have rifles and the manual of arms.. not just a Dry Fire and Wet Fire day like when I was in basic training.
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PO2 Robert Cuminale
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The Navy is just as bad. Even with 30 years in most sailors will be found to have never touched a small arm since boot camp. Not all duty is on ships, we do have land based facilities that would need small arms capable personnel if attacked.
The only exceptions are Gunners Mates, Bosun's Mates, Master At Arms, SEABEEs and SEALs. If there are others I don't know who they are.
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SSgt Rick Scharnberg
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In Basic I fired 36 rounds from an M-16, I was sent to Germany after Tech School. When I processed in I signed a sheet of paper and was told to sign beside my rifle number. When I signed out for my discharge I was ask if the signature beside the rifle number was mine? I said yes and that was the only time I knew I had a weapon assigned to me.
I joined the Army National Guard ,an qualified in the M-16, 45, M-60, M-2 50Cal., and the old grease gun. I qualified with the TOW, LAE, Javelin . Air Force weapins training is a farce.
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
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I enlisted in the AF Reserve in '70 and became a Cook.. I qualified in basic on the M-16, later on 38 for when I was on Honor Guard. At a later time I got assigned to the base hospital, j as on Honor Guard there also. Thre seems to be a prob
With them about me being qualufied on the 38 because I was assigned to the hospital and would be a non-combatant,
They said it was ok being on firing detail
Because we fired blanks.. but I couldn't be firing team NCO because the .38 had live rounds.. it was a.big todo over it all..
I just kept it quiet about the times I was
Firing team NCO.. I had to use my regular days off to get time at the range. One of the diet techs asked me where I was going in my fatigues and I told him Honor Guard practice.. at the range, Igor to fire the .38.. I wanted to see him run up to the
Hospital and tattle.. I'm on the Guard and
They'd just have to live with it.. I enjoy
Firing and that is that !
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CPT Wes Marsh
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Money. That is it. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. The Army used to require even the clerks and jerks in the Puzzle Palace to qualify on the rifle range, but last century that was changed to only those who had an individually issued weapon. Money. Less bullets, less cost, less wear and tear on weapons. More time behind desks doing important paperwork, less time on the range playing grab ass and doing "army stuff, sir!"
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