Posted on May 28, 2015
Why don't all members of the Air Force have to be fully qualified to be a rifleman in case of hostile events?
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I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 907
Because they are more valuable doing the things they do best- flying planes, maintaining planes, arming planes, etc. We don’t need them to be part-time soldiers, part-time airmen, and good at neither.
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Air Force bases of operations are never within range of enemy combat troops so they have no need for strong ground force security... These facilities are always fenced in to keep your random suicide idiot from easily penetrating and the ingress-egress points, gates, are always maned with troops who are fully capable in the use of combat weapons... For forward operations, they should rent troops from the Army to defend their positions, personnel, and equipment... The size of the Army contingent would be dependent on an assessment by the Army as to how many soldiers would be necessary to defend and hold against the enemy...
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Garrett don't hold your breathe. I just returned from my 3rd combat tour and we would occasionally visit the joint air force & local military base. 1 day I drove up to the gate & was literally asked was that an m4 I had & why did I have it. The Security forces had to call up to a Col to grant us clearance to come on the fob with weapons. Then when we got to billeting we were asked if we had weapons & were told to go to the arms room to turn them in before getting billeting. I dropped off some SF (special forces) and they were carrying their m17 on their hips. The security forces were called on them 5 times in the 3 hours they were on the fob.
Sry but the air force isn't military mind set branch for combat outside of security forces & pilots. Everyone else is just support for them. And from my experience living next to an AF base & traveling to a few overseas, it holds true.
Since we're "out" of Iraq & afghan. Air force bases should go back to being far from engagement areas like they use to be. Hundreds of miles far away from front lines. So there shouldn't be any real concern of worrying about a base being over run. Even in Iraq & afghan when I was there we had only 1 fob breached & they didn't make 100 ft onto the fob cause of our qrf teams were always ready. The rest of the time we were well secure. Plus everyone in the army @ least always carried their weapon with ammo.
Sry but the air force isn't military mind set branch for combat outside of security forces & pilots. Everyone else is just support for them. And from my experience living next to an AF base & traveling to a few overseas, it holds true.
Since we're "out" of Iraq & afghan. Air force bases should go back to being far from engagement areas like they use to be. Hundreds of miles far away from front lines. So there shouldn't be any real concern of worrying about a base being over run. Even in Iraq & afghan when I was there we had only 1 fob breached & they didn't make 100 ft onto the fob cause of our qrf teams were always ready. The rest of the time we were well secure. Plus everyone in the army @ least always carried their weapon with ammo.
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While I can see good reasons why an airman’s training might necessarily be different. I still think every service member should be familiar with the standard personal weapons of our armed forces . Shoot, I think every American should know how to use a firearm safely and properly. I think most Ukrainians would agree.
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Except for certain groups in the AF, not much need. Besides, firefights can occur at any time and what airman wakes up before noon. The maid hasn't even come in yet.
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SP5 James Elmore
I wonder what happened to the serious part of my comment. I said that I agree with you. I would not want to rely on others for personal protection in a combat zone like RVN should the perimeter be breached.
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If the enemy "comes knocking on your doorstep" everyone else is going to rely on you and other security force personnel (who hopefully have completed Air Base Ground Defense training).
It wouldn't really help much if the Air Force bothered training everyone enough to qualify with a weapon because no air base has enough individual weapons to pass around or enough qualified leaders to organize any sort of credible ground defense.
I can't speak for the Marines where "Every Marine a rifleman" has long been their slogan; but I can absolutely say that the Army does not actually qualify EVERY soldier going through Basic Training. The Army comes very close -- every soldier at least fires the service rifle, almost all "qualify" although a few are granted a waiver if they are unable to qualify after several attempts. On the other hand, I have seen several instances of fully "qualified" US Army soldiers making exactly the same mistakes you described. Most soldiers who are not in a combat MOS and not in a Combat unit are likely to see their assigned individual weapon only a few times each year (mostly just cleaning it for inspection) and only fire it one day each year (if that!) Trust me when I say that the typical finance or supply unit would have little more defensive capability than your airmen (or whatever gender-neutral term the Air Force has invented to use).
My point is that simply qualifying with a rifle during initial entry training accomplishes very little, if anything, towards a defensive capability once those personnel arrive at a deployed unit. To create a defensive capability requires more than just weapons qualification (and, yes, you are right that the Army and Marine Corps do cover those topics in initial training) and it also requires continued training in both weapons and tactics for soldiers and leaders on a regular basis throughout their service. Consider how often your security detachment trains on defensive skills; are you really all that confident in the skills of every member of your unit and the people who will be directing you?
Basically the Air Force assumes that they will put air bases in reasonably safe locations or that they will have Army units assigned to protect the air base. So far those assumptions have worked.
It wouldn't really help much if the Air Force bothered training everyone enough to qualify with a weapon because no air base has enough individual weapons to pass around or enough qualified leaders to organize any sort of credible ground defense.
I can't speak for the Marines where "Every Marine a rifleman" has long been their slogan; but I can absolutely say that the Army does not actually qualify EVERY soldier going through Basic Training. The Army comes very close -- every soldier at least fires the service rifle, almost all "qualify" although a few are granted a waiver if they are unable to qualify after several attempts. On the other hand, I have seen several instances of fully "qualified" US Army soldiers making exactly the same mistakes you described. Most soldiers who are not in a combat MOS and not in a Combat unit are likely to see their assigned individual weapon only a few times each year (mostly just cleaning it for inspection) and only fire it one day each year (if that!) Trust me when I say that the typical finance or supply unit would have little more defensive capability than your airmen (or whatever gender-neutral term the Air Force has invented to use).
My point is that simply qualifying with a rifle during initial entry training accomplishes very little, if anything, towards a defensive capability once those personnel arrive at a deployed unit. To create a defensive capability requires more than just weapons qualification (and, yes, you are right that the Army and Marine Corps do cover those topics in initial training) and it also requires continued training in both weapons and tactics for soldiers and leaders on a regular basis throughout their service. Consider how often your security detachment trains on defensive skills; are you really all that confident in the skills of every member of your unit and the people who will be directing you?
Basically the Air Force assumes that they will put air bases in reasonably safe locations or that they will have Army units assigned to protect the air base. So far those assumptions have worked.
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I Was In The USAF Just Before We No Longer Used Rubber Bands,, But We DID Have To Qualify On The Range... All Of Us....
If One Didn't Qualify, He Had To Keep Returning To The Range & Practicing Until He DID Qualify...... Then We Had To Learn, In Russian, To Say "Put Your Hands DOWN, This Is a FUK Up"...
If One Didn't Qualify, He Had To Keep Returning To The Range & Practicing Until He DID Qualify...... Then We Had To Learn, In Russian, To Say "Put Your Hands DOWN, This Is a FUK Up"...
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