Posted on Apr 21, 2014
Why is leave 'lost' if not used? Isn't this taking away YOUR money?
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Over the past few years, personally, I've lost an average of 20 days of leave. (The 'why' isn't a part of this discussion...and I understand the temporary updated over 60 days policy)<br><br>I earn just shy of $5,000 per month in base pay (I know, I know...I am WAY overpaid) which equates to approximately $167 per day (rounded up).<br><br>Since leave is an earned 'entitlement', if the Army recoups the 20 days of leave I did not take, aren't they, in reality, taking $3,340 from me?<br><br>What are your thoughts about the worth of leave? Should the Army (not sure of other services) reconsider and pay for unused leave or allow leave to be 'carried over'?<br><br>---> Important Note <---<br><br>I am not complaining about losing leave, I am simply giving a real-life example of the potential 'monetary loss'...putting it into perspective.<br><br>I know how to request leave and manage leave (some comments are pretty funny)...I choose not to take leave at certain times.<br><br>Back to the comments.
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Responses: 52
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I didn't vote because neither of these options are good. Vacation is supposed to be used! You want people to take it on a fairly regular basis, and both of your suggestions would actually create an incentive NOT to use vacation as vacation. Take a break MSG!
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SGM Matthew Quick
Thanks, CPT Wolfer...good feedback.
I get enough time off, but my wife may begin to track me leave days now that we purchased a time share...kinda forces leave now. ;)
I get enough time off, but my wife may begin to track me leave days now that we purchased a time share...kinda forces leave now. ;)
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LTC Hillary Luton
CPT (Join to see) Well said. I would not have voted either, because, like you, I believe leave should be utilized to ensure service members decompress. I also feel that leave is not designed to be accumulated. Leave is a benefit, not an entitlement. And like any other benefit, if you don't use it, it just doesn't get used. You don't get paid for not using it. If you don't use your medical benefits, you don't get paid for it. If you don't use all of your PTDY, you don't get paid for it. If you want the benefit, then use the benefit, but don't expect to be compensated for not using it.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Exactly as CPT (Join to see) stated. Allowing unused use-or-lose leave to be paid out would create an incentive not to use leave, which would create an increasingly (and unnecessarily) stressful working environment.
As for the option of accumulating an unlimited amount of leave...what happens when the soldier decides they suddenly want to use eight months of accumulated leave? It creates the potential for a very unmanageable situation.
As for the option of accumulating an unlimited amount of leave...what happens when the soldier decides they suddenly want to use eight months of accumulated leave? It creates the potential for a very unmanageable situation.
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MSG (Join to see)
I can see Senior NCOs and field grade and up officers losing (choosing not to take) leave, but when it comes to our younger soldiers, it's our failure. Lack of planning and unrealistic paperwork requirements often result in lost leave. If a private company did that, nobody would want to work there, and likewise we're having problems filling our ranks. We need our soldiers at their best, and if we want that we need to train, coach, mentor, develop, and let them decompress.
IF the army pursued a compensation policy, I would still like to see that it's only if the soldier was denied leave during the time allotted by their unit.
IF the army pursued a compensation policy, I would still like to see that it's only if the soldier was denied leave during the time allotted by their unit.
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I used to think the exact same thing. This is how I look at it now. Say every year the govt gives you a car to use for 30 days. And for 30 days you let that car sit in your drive way and drove your own car instead. At the end of the 30 days you can't say, hey I didn't use the car you gave me so pay me for the car instead or let me use it 60 days next year. The fact is you earned the car, they gave you the car, but you just chose not to use it. So they don't owe you anything.<div>That's how I see use/lose leave now. You've earned it, they gave it to you, but you chose not to use it.</div><div>I still think it sucks, because I lost 8 days last year.</div>
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SFC Benjamin Harrison
I can see your point of view, however, there are those years that come and go and it is impossible to find the moment to request yet actually take leave. Then you also have units that require far more paperwork than regulation calls for in order to request the time, and sometimes even chose to deny your request.
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LTC Hillary Luton
SFC Benjamin Harrison "Then you also have units that require far more paperwork than regulation calls for in order to request the time, and sometimes even chose to deny your request." I think that is what we refer to as poor leadership and an ineffective command environment.
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Leave that is lost is, or should be, a black eye in the chain of command. Leave is supposed to be used. Those that don't use leave are either going to get burned out or they are not doing their job in training others to take their place or not training others so the mission is getting accomplished without them. This is what is causing personnel with a large number of days getting saved and in the end getting lost.
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SFC (Join to see)
That's not always the case. I had a Soldier who was the only medic in a prison facility, therefore wasn't allowed to take leave by his command. Once he got two jr. medics assigned to him he trained them very well to do his job. He was "chewed out" about not taking leave and having so many days of leave by his command, even though they were the ones denying his leave. He was forced to go on leave so as not to lose his days, then while on his forced leave they called him back and canceled his remaining leave. Why? because his jr medics were trained so well that when the MP's tried to overuse and misuse those jr medics they spoke up when the MP's were forcing them to violate their code of ethics and also HIPPA. <br><br>Sometimes its just a crappy command from the top on down. Sad part is that those that are a part of it are so naïve to it that they continue to spread that toxic leadership around.
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SSG William Sutter
That chewing that the medic got when he didn't take leave was more than likely the poop rolling down hill. The command got it, so he got it. Now that they violated ethics and HIPPA the command should have been relieved as it looks like all they care about is mission accomplishment instead of doing what is right- morally, ethically and legally.
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