Posted on Aug 3, 2018
SFC Platoon Sergeant
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CW3 Kevin Storm
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It allowed people who were insightful technicians but maybe not the best leaders to move up in rank.
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SFC Dave Parker
SFC Dave Parker
3 y
There are a lot of MOSs that require a lot of expensive training, skill, and experience. Those soldiers deserve increasing pay, just like their hard stripe counterparts, but they might not have the same leadership abilities. Dividing the ranks into specialist and sergeant lines allows the Army to have the technicians doing what they do best, and the sergeants doing what they do best. Unfortunately, somebody failed to keep that in mind back in 1985 and put them all in the same bag.
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SSG Richard Denson
SSG Richard Denson
2 y
That's exactly right SFC Parker, however I'd have to disagree just slightly and actually supported the change. During the late 70's & early 80's the Army Re-aligned its career fields and discontinued many MOS's with quite a few being discontinued in technical fields. Example, my first 3 years in the Army was in MOS 52B (Prime Power Generator Operator & Mechanic) and loved that Job. In 1979 the MOS was discontinued and all of us were reclassified as 63B (Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic). I had no desire to be a Grease Monkey (most of us felt the same way) didn't have a lick of training in it, and Re-classified upon Re-Enlistment into another Career Field (71N, which later during the same re-alignment period became 81N). The end results were an imbalance and shortage of Sergeants & Staff Sergeants in the Technical MOS's resulting in the vast majority of Specialist 5's & 6's serving with direct Reports in Front Line Leadership positions. I for one was a Section Chief holding the rank of Specialist 5 (MOS 81N) as were the other 4 or 5 Specialist 5's in my organization and we had one Specialist Six with direct Reports (He was a Computer Programmer). All of us were lateralled by our Commanders up to the Hard Stripe level of Sgt. & SSG because we had Direct Reports. For the record, my MOS of 81N at that time did become hard Stripe at the E-6 level (Staff Sergeant), but there were even fewer Staff Sergeants which is why the Specialist 5’s was in direct leadership positions. The one lone Specialist 6 that we had also was a Sergeant First Class at the E7 level, but our organization didn’t have one (it just made no sense that his Rank wasn’t a Staff Sergeant at the E6 level). That was a very common scenario throughout the Army at the time. I knew of no Specialist 5’s during that time that didn’t have direct reports, although I’m sure there were probably some out there, but most were serving in Leadership positions as a Specialist 5 or lateralled up to Sergeant. That was one of the big major factors that went into retiring those ranks and making the permanent change to Sergeant & Staff Sergeant. I was in Brigade Headquarters at the time in Germany (1985), and Our Commander (a Colonel) and Sergeant Major held an official Ceremony. We had to switch back to our original Specialist 5 & 6 Rank Insignia for the Ceremony. They removed them and replaced them with the Hard Stripes making it official. It was actually a big ceremonious day for our Command, even though all of us were already wearing the Ranks lateralled up as "Acting's", so the Army just made permanent, what we were already doing in our minds.
Of all the Ranks I held & wore… Specialist 5 was my favorite. It was unique… recognized as both a NCO and a Technician… during my time in uniform. Although subordinate to Sergeant and Staff Sergeant they were treated and managed no lesser. They were pretty sharp looking Rank Insignia’s as well.
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LTC William Goldimg
LTC William Goldimg
2 y
Why are Doctors, Dentists, Lawyers, veterinarians, Commissioned and most pilots are Warrants? Aren’t Doctors “Specialists”?
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SPC Ramon Cruz
SPC Ramon Cruz
4 mo
SSG Richard Denson I was caught in the E-4 freeze in 1981. Made E-4 in Korea. Was the Senior Medic as a Sp4, made the field assignments and ordered supplies and meds. Still had to do Company duties like CQ runner, Duty Driver, Headcount and Medic CQ. I was in charge of 3 E-5s, 3 KATUSAs and a PFC. I worked under an E-6 and and a CW3 PA. Still use everything I learned from any rank especially the 91C Sp5s and Sp6s at my first duty station in the ER at BAMC. Should have Re-upped but nobody talked to about it until my ETS from Korea.
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1SG Charles Rivenburgh
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CW3 Storm is somewhat right. It was mainly used in medical facilities, supply, etc. The reason was they weren't in leadership positions. The Army finally started phasing out the Specialist ranks. The Chief is right in that those who couldn't cut it but somehow avoided doing anything to boot them out were made Specialists. You were an SP6, SP7 you were looked down upon. The general perception (right or wrong) was you couldn't cut it!
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1SG Charles Rivenburgh
1SG Charles Rivenburgh
>1 y
That we do sir. Just sad that the perception was there.
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SP6 Gary Russell
SP6 Gary Russell
4 y
Yep, SUPER worker Bee. As a SP6 in the 115th MASH I enlisted 'too old' (33yo) to be an Officer, so as an ENLISTEE I "couldn't cut it" AND SERVED HONORABLY anyway.
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SFC Dave Parker
SFC Dave Parker
3 y
In calibration (35H/94H), being a specialist instead of a hard striper was worn with pride. We are highly skilled technicians with very high aptitude test scores and abilities. We liked it that way. I very much disliked being converted back in 1985. We didn't need leadership skills. We had important equipment that need repair and calibration. instead, we were often given 'additional duties' that were a waste of our abilities.
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MAJ Engineer Officer
MAJ (Join to see)
3 y
I wouldn't say they "couldn't cut it," but that they served a different function than their NCO peers. IMO we should go back to that, because there are PLENTY of E-rank Soldiers whose skills don't lie in management and direct leadership roles but are still of value to the force, just like plenty of officers stumble in command roles but shine on staff.
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LTC John Mohor
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The other reason I've thought the specialists/ Technician ranks existed was due to having the draft. As the peacetime draft was ended in the early / mid 70s so we're the specialists ranks above E-4. Just a thought
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Why were the Specialist ranks (SP4, SP5, SP6) important? What purpose did they serve to the Army?
SGM Bill Frazer
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Because they were seldom leaders, but they were the Specialists in things like Finance, HR, Supply., at 1 time all the way up to SPC9.
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SFC Andrew Miller
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There weren't all of the contractors in those days that there are now. Not saying there weren't any, but for the most part soldiers took care of everything. Combat Service Support and some Combat Support specialties moved up through the SPC ranks.

As a retired Signal NCO, I can tell you that for the last 10-12 years of my career you were expected to be both a proficient technician as well as a stellar leader. Most S6 offices I led were usually too short staffed to effectively allow both. It wasn't that my leadership itself was affected, but between everything that needed to be documented and every useless meeting you were expected to attend there were too few hours in the day to maintain, lead, and document to the level each should be.

Having separate personnel to either be the technical specialists or the "hard stripes" would have ensured that fewer issues were fixed with figurative duct tape and 550 cord.
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SSG John C Quigley II
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Actually, the Specialist ranks made sense, they were not infantry or Armor, they were men and women who were technically oriented and the Army needed those folks to do the computer work, programming etc.. In the service if you are a technician you are a specialist, I disagree with those who lump Supply people in with that, I was a SSG as a Supply Sergeant, my duties included being able to lead men and women in many different areas of work. I suppose that I could have stayed active but I did not, but that is a different story. I think that keeping SP4 instead of CPL is kind of silly, but hey what do I know?
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
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They replaced Technician ranks. However, all Specialists ranked between PFC and CPL and therefore available for fatigue duties. Technicians ranked just below the NCO, T5 below CPL, T4 below SGT and T3 below SSG.
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SP5 Kenneth St Clair
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Sp4 and Sp5 were standard ranks in Armor when I was on active duty in the then 3rd Armored Division (Spearhead) at Ayers Kaserne in W Germany (1967-1968). The Tank commander was SSGT E6, the loader was PFC, the gunner was Sp4, the driver was Sp5. I was first a gunner, then a driver. No position other than the tank commander required leadership. On off hours, the company CQs were Buck Sgts E5 and the Sp5s all served as commander of the relief for the guard shifts. No real reason to do away with the Sp positions imo.
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SP5 Christopher Kiger
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In 1970 I was promoted to SP5 in field artillery fire direction, had to go before promotion board because E5 was the first NCO rank, (SGT or SP5). FDC computation was a specialty, although you wouldn’t normally have command over others. Most importantly, you could get into the NCO club, much to the dismay of the “hard strippers”.
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MSG Danny Mathers
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My answer is NO. Specialist positions E-5 and above were mainly promoted during the Vietnam War. From WWII to Vietnam there were specilist ranks. WWII they were called Techs. After the Vietnam War was over and the Army was reducing forces, the specialist position were eliminated excepty for E-4s. I mostly saw SP5 & SP6 ranks in support roles such as clerks, medics and drivers during the late 60's and 70's. The army converted the specialist to NCO which the policy was up or out. In other words, you were gone if you could not soldier as an NCO that was promotable. The highest specilist I ever saw was a SP7 clerk at post headquarters at Fort Polk. He was promoted to a warrant officer. I believe the army should do away with the specilist rank all together. You service as a private and are forced out after your enlistment contract or pass PLC or BLC and continue as a NCO.
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SP5 Peter Keane
SP5 Peter Keane
>1 y
SP7 was the highest you ever saw, because no SP8 or SP9 was ever used. It was only on paper. Tens of thousands of 11B were SP4 in Vietnam, Corporal was very rare then as it is today.
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