Posted on Feb 27, 2021
Will the insurrectionist retirees/veterans lose their VA/Service benefits?
50.1K
1.7K
702
Since military benefits are lost on day 61 of a criminal conviction, will we finally see the retired and/or separated insurrectionist veterans lose their retirements, GI/9-11 bills, and VA benefits and stop them leeching off a government they wanted to overturn in the first place?
In addition, will we see their respective services follow precedent and subject those retirees to Court Martials, as they are still bound by UCMJ after retirement?
In addition, will we see their respective services follow precedent and subject those retirees to Court Martials, as they are still bound by UCMJ after retirement?
Benefits
UCMJ
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)
Law
Edited 3 y ago
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 127
They are not insurrectionists. You've bought into the Pelosi narrative. They were not rebels nor trying to destroy our government. Those insurrectionists are the criminal rebels in Minneapolis and Portland, among others, who killed, robbed and burnt down blocks at a time. If these retirees were in violation of participating in a riot then they should be prosecuted.
show previous comments
LTC Patrick Turner
Precise. Pointed. Educated. Great response. SFC Dennis Calkins
MSG Antwine Marshall
SPC Robert James , sounds legit to me.
SSgt (Join to see)
Remover any and all political bias and ultimately anyone that committed acts of violence and destruction/vandalism of property and assaults on law enforcement officers are CRIMINLAS. Those that attacked the Constitutionally designated seat of power and our elected representatives using force to interfere with the mechanisms of government are guilty of a crime. Their violation of of their oath to support and defend the constitution of the United States will not go unpunished. In the end. It does not pay to be a convenient idiot in the name of partisan theatrics and power plays. Politicization of military service is disgusting and we should all recoil away from it.
SGT Joanie MacConnell-Rozek
People who were involved with violence should be prosecuted. Again- take the politics out of it for 1 minute- WOULD YOU BE ALRIGHT WITH ANYONE PHYSICALLY BREAKING INTO THE CAPITAL AND HARMING POLICE OFFICERS AND DOING DAMAGE TO THE PLACE??
Makes my skin crawl to hear that term. The protestors on Jan 6th were not insurrectionists, they had zero chance of overthrowing the govt. Thats not how our govt works, he who sits in the capital doesn't become king.
SSG Brian G.
MSgt Steve Sweeney - Does not matter what "they" believed or did not, they had not chance of success due simply to how our government is structured and works. They did not have the sitting President on their side, that was pretty resoundingly apparent and affirmed with this latest failed impeachment trial.
MSgt Steve Sweeney
SSG Brian G. - On January 6th, Donald Trump was the sitting President, genius. Joe Biden's inauguration was on the 20th... Or didn't you know that. So as a matter of fact, they DID have the sitting President backing them up and spurring on the insurrection.
SSG Brian G.
MSgt Steve Sweeney - Very good, you finally figured that one out, genius. Now that you had someone smarter than you inform you of that little fact, ask them to point out in your favorite crayon color where he said to attack the Capital. Oh wait, that NEVER happened. That is the crazed moronic idea that people like YOU got in your heads and parroted after taking snippets from various speeches and assuming. No little intellect challenged one, they did not have ANY President backing them up. Or did you conveniently miss that in the evidence. You know, those things called facts that the Democrats LACKED utterly. Point of fact Trump only said to march to the Capital PEACEFULLY. Maybe when you learn to read you might comprehend these things.
MSgt Steve Sweeney
SSG Brian G. - Mob bosses rarely tell people to commit crimes openly, and yet they run the show under which crimes are committed. Nor do criminals always give signed confessions or openly discuss their crimes, and yet they are charged just the same. I know it is entirely beyond your limited comprehension or understanding how this happens, but maybe one day when you are a fully realized adult you will be able to figure it out. But first you will have to figure out when Presidents are inaugurated and who is the sitting President up to that point. You have some work to do. Good luck with that.
I do enjoy how people like you when they clearly make a mistake try so desperately to play it off instead of simply owning up to it. Reminds of the low caliber of people that vote for people like Trump.
I do enjoy how people like you when they clearly make a mistake try so desperately to play it off instead of simply owning up to it. Reminds of the low caliber of people that vote for people like Trump.
LCpl Douglas Elfving
The military has been taken over by communists and snowflakes... I wouldn't want to go to war with them... against them - I'd vote for that
PO2 David McNamara
GySgt Aaron S. - Depends on if you're talking about the laughing guy, or the insurrectionist accuser? I'm guessing you're talking about SGT Hector the accuser... Which in that case I agree.
SGT Nickolas Ortiz
SSgt Tom Neven - hate to tell you this, Skippy, but there was no "attempting to thwart" anything... and if they were, then a few cops with pistols stopped an "insurrection"... makes it a pretty sad "insurrection". It was "trespassing"... at worst. A innocent woman DID die, and no protests, no Presidential hosting in the White House... no riots. Makes you wonder how important that "insurrection" actually was.
Jesus Christ. You should be more concerned over the Antifa/BLM mob and the Dems who use the 6 January protest as an excuse to turn D.C. into an armed fortress against We the People.
SGT Felicia King
Antifa isn’t even an organized group. And the Proud Boys started in Canada. SSgt Tom Neven
SFC Cheryl McElroy US ARMY (RET)
SSgt Tom Neven - You have a very selective memory. In 2016, the Obama regime used a fake dossier, illegal spying, lying to the FISA court, a weaponized FBI, a "Russian collusion" hoax and a bogus impeachment in an attempt to overthrow a duly elected President. They broke all kinds of laws in the effort. As for Antifa and BLM, they have rampaged through cities committing arson, murder, vandalism, destroying courthouses and police stations in the name of "social justice". They are organized domestic terrorist groups. The Dems are more than happy to blame the cops they defund for their own disasters.
SGT Rojas, Everytime one votes we are attempting to change the government, I would not consider protesting any different. I would suggest a few less MSNBC sessions and a few more Steven Crowder viewings.
TSgt James Warfield
SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA - I for one do read the books, I read from all different views.
There has been know proof that they were trying to take any hostage of any congressional leader. Yes they were trying to have sit in and disrupt the congress. However this is no different from all the other protest around the county. Federal buildings, fire bombed, or damaged. Police stations, cops murdered.
Oh and let's look at all the destruction of done in DC by BLM and AFITA.
Last, every one talks about photos and videos, yet know one talks about the videos that main stream media and many members of congress refuse look at that showed that good 1/4 to 1/3 of those who were in the Capital building were BLM and AFITA members who were actually out front of the some of crowds edging them on and entered the Capital building and did damage as well.
There has been know proof that they were trying to take any hostage of any congressional leader. Yes they were trying to have sit in and disrupt the congress. However this is no different from all the other protest around the county. Federal buildings, fire bombed, or damaged. Police stations, cops murdered.
Oh and let's look at all the destruction of done in DC by BLM and AFITA.
Last, every one talks about photos and videos, yet know one talks about the videos that main stream media and many members of congress refuse look at that showed that good 1/4 to 1/3 of those who were in the Capital building were BLM and AFITA members who were actually out front of the some of crowds edging them on and entered the Capital building and did damage as well.
You are calling out the people who entered the Capital on 6 Jan 21 as insurrectionists. Insurrection may not be what most of the folks had in mind. There was a riot at the Capital and some people entered the building without appropriate permissions. A few others entered spaces in the Capital to which they did not have authorization. They were possibly trespassing. Some were video-ed destroying Government property. Some threatened or assaulted a law enforcement officers. All in all it was an inappropriately rowdy crowd. They probably scared a lot more people than were actually hurt. Were some of them there to overthrow or at least slow the workings of the US Congress, yes. Were they all there for that purpose, no. Many of the people at the Capital were simply exercising their rights under the First Amendment to the US Constitution, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom to petition the Government.
Last time I heard it mentioned on the news, over 200 people had been arrested in connection with the riot at the Capital. Some will be charged with crimes; some will not. Some of the people charged may be veterans. Eventually, all of the people charged will have their day in court. Some will be convicted and some won't be. The guy with his feet on Speaker Pelosi's desk might as well plead guilty to trespassing or a similar charge. The folks just walking through the halls of the Capital may get off with no charge, probation, or a fine. After the justice system is done, then further penalties through the VA or DoD might be levied. I think dealing with retired service members is best left to civilian courts. The criminal or civil charges can be easily handled in those venues. There's no reason I can see for the DoD to drag a retired service member back to active duty so they can be court martialed for a crime that civilian authorities can handle.
Last time I heard it mentioned on the news, over 200 people had been arrested in connection with the riot at the Capital. Some will be charged with crimes; some will not. Some of the people charged may be veterans. Eventually, all of the people charged will have their day in court. Some will be convicted and some won't be. The guy with his feet on Speaker Pelosi's desk might as well plead guilty to trespassing or a similar charge. The folks just walking through the halls of the Capital may get off with no charge, probation, or a fine. After the justice system is done, then further penalties through the VA or DoD might be levied. I think dealing with retired service members is best left to civilian courts. The criminal or civil charges can be easily handled in those venues. There's no reason I can see for the DoD to drag a retired service member back to active duty so they can be court martialed for a crime that civilian authorities can handle.
CPL Joseph Elinger
[~863133:MSgt Steve Sweeney guess you watched The Matrix & Minority Report last night? Not everything you see or hear on a TV, or read in a book is real or true. LOL!
SGT Felicia King
That is actually true. CBS interviewed at least one gentleman that was disgusted by the insurrectionists on January 6th. He came to DC to protest, was not part of the the insurrection group. I’m sure he was not alone, not in his thinking.
TSgt James Warfield
You are right, and there are many who have yet had bail set or even trail date set.
While across this country those who riot and actually destroyed, federal buildings, police stations, many business, were out on bail in less the 24 hours, many received bail assistance from members of congress themselves
If the women had been black that was killed in the capital building there would have been even more protest and media just condemning.
Trespassing, possible rioting yes, Were the wrong yes, insurrection NO!
While across this country those who riot and actually destroyed, federal buildings, police stations, many business, were out on bail in less the 24 hours, many received bail assistance from members of congress themselves
If the women had been black that was killed in the capital building there would have been even more protest and media just condemning.
Trespassing, possible rioting yes, Were the wrong yes, insurrection NO!
PO1 David Shepardson
CPL Joseph Elinger - Thanks to the educational system there are many who cannot understand the difference between true and un-true, they have been indoctranated to believe everything that is in front of them is true. Minds which cannot think.
They are innocent until convicted by a trial of their peers. This still is America, and some of you need to re-read your oath.
MSG Jeremy Jiron
Ok Sgt Obvious, in your post you have already assumed that they have been convicted, and they have not. You claim that these veterans who have served are “leeching”. This is an accusation, this is not a fact Sgt Rojas. As a citizen, and NCO, understand that your comment of the obvious supports your version of a guilty verdict of these veterans, right, wrong, or in different.
MSG Jeremy Jiron
You need to understand that these veterans and citizens have the right to protest, and the right to bear arms. You personally don’t have to agree with it, and I definitely don’t think that the violence that was happening was acceptable, however there have been violent protests all over the United States, and were Veterans being charged like they were in the DC protest? These veterans may or may not have broken laws and the justice system has to make that decision along with a trial of their peers to convict or not. So Sgt, we are bound by our oath and the constitution, and once you start spinning it with a narrative that everyone is guilty and should have their benefits taken away for service they have already completed for something these people have not been convicted of, sort of reminds me of a guilty until proven innocence stance, just like in socialist countries. This is still America, and your wearing a uniform that represents the democracy that every country wishes they have. MSG Jeremy Jiron
This was already posted a month ago or so.
If someone is a retired Reservist or Guardsman, they can't touch their retirement.
If someone is retired from active duty, they can be called back to be punished under UCMJ, but it's rarer.
If someone is a veteran and not a retiree (as in they ETSed) that's different. Also - no one has been convicted of a felony yet.
Also: "VA disability compensation payments are reduced if a Veteran is convicted of a felony and imprisoned for more than 60 days. Veterans rated 20 percent or more are limited to the 10 percent disability rate. For a Veteran whose disability rating is 10 percent, the payment is reduced by one-half. Once a Veteran is released from prison, compensation payments may be reinstated based upon the severity of the service connected disability(ies) at that time. Payments are not reduced for recipients participating in work release programs, residing in halfway houses (also known as "residential re-entry centers"), or under community control. The amount of any increased compensation awarded to an incarcerated Veteran that results from other than a statutory rate increase may be subject to reduction due to incarceration."
If someone is a retired Reservist or Guardsman, they can't touch their retirement.
If someone is retired from active duty, they can be called back to be punished under UCMJ, but it's rarer.
If someone is a veteran and not a retiree (as in they ETSed) that's different. Also - no one has been convicted of a felony yet.
Also: "VA disability compensation payments are reduced if a Veteran is convicted of a felony and imprisoned for more than 60 days. Veterans rated 20 percent or more are limited to the 10 percent disability rate. For a Veteran whose disability rating is 10 percent, the payment is reduced by one-half. Once a Veteran is released from prison, compensation payments may be reinstated based upon the severity of the service connected disability(ies) at that time. Payments are not reduced for recipients participating in work release programs, residing in halfway houses (also known as "residential re-entry centers"), or under community control. The amount of any increased compensation awarded to an incarcerated Veteran that results from other than a statutory rate increase may be subject to reduction due to incarceration."
SSG Brian G.
MSgt Gilbert Jones - That is the problem MSgt, there are no regs that require it for Air Force or Army. The only two are Navy and Marine corps. They require any retiree that did not go to 30 to be in a fleet reserve. The Air Force and Army both, once you are out, that is it, you are out, no requirement for enlisted or even officers to do what amounts to an inactive commitment out to 30 years.
MSgt Gilbert Jones
Sorry SSG G. I am looking, but hard to find what spells out the rules for AF retirees. I do know when I retired the letter I received with my retirement orders said that I had to complete eight years in the inactive reserve before I went on the retirement role. At that time I no longer could be recalled to active duty. I also had to maintain three military uniforms , one each type. That I did and the day I reached 30 years, I remove the stripes and button and thru the uniforms in the trash. No, I wasn't upset, but that was another life and I had no need for them. I do wear my caps to the VA - I collect military caps, have one for most of the different commands I served in.
LTC Joe Anderson
SSG Brian G. - Just to piggy back on your post - Military personnel can be recalled to serve active duty if needed. If they fall under Category I: Nondisabled military retirees under the age of 60 who have been retired less than five years. This category is disposed to be recalled during times of war, national emergency, or “needs of the service”. IF the retiree isn't in the retired reserve, been retried for over 5 years, over 60, or retired under Tittle 32 they are not subject to recall or the UCMJ. Our service isn't for life. Thus neither is the Jurisdiction of the UCMJ.
If a Vets convicted, can a Veteran Receive Retired Military Pay While In Prison?
Generally, yes. Being convicted of a crime almost never jeopardizes a federal pension – the rare exception to this rule are charges relating to criminal disloyalty to the United States: espionage, treason, sabotage, etc. Therefore, retirement pay could continue. Military retirement pay is not automatically stopped for incarceration AFTER retirement. According to the Hiss Act, as amended in 1961, only convictions (after retirement) for "crimes of national security" could lose retirement pay or benefits. So far the charges range from conspiracy, civil disorder, obstruction of an official proceeding, knowingly entering or remaining in a restricted building or grounds without lawful authority, disorderly conduct, vandalism, trespassing, theft, and destruction of property. So at this time their benefits are safe. Anyone who does get changed with insurrection may have their benefits at risk. But read the insurrection act. There are some criteria elements of the crime that must be met to be charged and tried. Probably why no one has been charged with insurrection so far. While I don't agree with those who entered the building I don't see where it meets the legal definition of insurrection. I agree with the charges filed to date of vandalism, trespassing, theft, and destruction of property.
Can A Veteran Receive VA Benefits While In Prison?
VA can pay certain benefits to veterans who are incarcerated in a Federal, state or local penal institution. However, the amount they can pay depends on the type of benefit and reason for incarceration. Your monthly payment will be reduced beginning with the 61st day of your imprisonment for a felony. If your disability payment before you went to prison was based on a rating of 20% disabled or higher your new payment will be based on the 10% disability rating. If you were receiving disability at the 10% disability rate your new payment will be cut in half. If you are imprisoned in a Federal, State or local penal institution as the result of conviction of a felony or misdemeanor, such pension payment will be discontinued effective on the 61st day of imprisonment following conviction.
https://www.military.com/benefits/veteran-benefits/incarcerated-veterans.htm
If a Vets convicted, can a Veteran Receive Retired Military Pay While In Prison?
Generally, yes. Being convicted of a crime almost never jeopardizes a federal pension – the rare exception to this rule are charges relating to criminal disloyalty to the United States: espionage, treason, sabotage, etc. Therefore, retirement pay could continue. Military retirement pay is not automatically stopped for incarceration AFTER retirement. According to the Hiss Act, as amended in 1961, only convictions (after retirement) for "crimes of national security" could lose retirement pay or benefits. So far the charges range from conspiracy, civil disorder, obstruction of an official proceeding, knowingly entering or remaining in a restricted building or grounds without lawful authority, disorderly conduct, vandalism, trespassing, theft, and destruction of property. So at this time their benefits are safe. Anyone who does get changed with insurrection may have their benefits at risk. But read the insurrection act. There are some criteria elements of the crime that must be met to be charged and tried. Probably why no one has been charged with insurrection so far. While I don't agree with those who entered the building I don't see where it meets the legal definition of insurrection. I agree with the charges filed to date of vandalism, trespassing, theft, and destruction of property.
Can A Veteran Receive VA Benefits While In Prison?
VA can pay certain benefits to veterans who are incarcerated in a Federal, state or local penal institution. However, the amount they can pay depends on the type of benefit and reason for incarceration. Your monthly payment will be reduced beginning with the 61st day of your imprisonment for a felony. If your disability payment before you went to prison was based on a rating of 20% disabled or higher your new payment will be based on the 10% disability rating. If you were receiving disability at the 10% disability rate your new payment will be cut in half. If you are imprisoned in a Federal, State or local penal institution as the result of conviction of a felony or misdemeanor, such pension payment will be discontinued effective on the 61st day of imprisonment following conviction.
https://www.military.com/benefits/veteran-benefits/incarcerated-veterans.htm
There may be a few challenges in any legal charge that the Jan 6th protesters committed 'insurrection.' First and foremost was a decision by Congress not to protect the Capitol building against recommendations by DC and Capitol police. Second, with the exception of those who broke a window to gain entry, there was no forced entry. In fact, most were escorted and the media documented the entrance and activities inside the Capitol. Third, if the individuals were trespassing, then the police had a duty to inform everyone that they were trespassing and would be arrested for trespassing, if they did not voluntarily leave (this was not done). Fourth, the First Amendment gives every citizen a 'right of redress,' 'freedom of expression,' and 'freedom of assembly.' For those, who did not create damage (breaking and entering or vandalism), they will exert their rights of redress. Fifth, insurrection requires a desire to overthrow the government. Given that most people peacefully departed the Capitol and made no demands beyond a demand to be heard, then there was no insurrection.
Of course, everything above assumes the Constitution remains valid and our laws are being applied equally. There are some signs that this may not be the case. When a President declares that 'no amendment is absolute,' he is in conflict with over 200 years of Supreme Court rulings that the Bill of Rights are absolute. When a former Secretary of State has been accused of passing intelligence about allied operations to a foreign adversary and there is no investigation, then treason is considered acceptable. When storing and transmitting classified information on a personal email server is not considered an unlawful act by a former Senator and Secretary of State but a felony by a member of the military, then justice is not equal. When evidence of the President's son has committed crimes of extortion, pay to play, child pornography, drug use and other crimes is provided to the FBI and no investigation is performed, then maybe justice is not equal. So, there is a chance that despite our laws and Constitution, anyone in Washington DC on Jan 6th, who is a Conservative, who supported President Trump and believes that current and former members of our government are operating a corrupt enterprise can be charged and convicted of crimes because there are no more checks and balances on our government.
Finally, when politics dictates how the UCMJ is applied, we will have lost the greatest military known to man and become nothing more than a banana republic. Just my 2-cents.
Of course, everything above assumes the Constitution remains valid and our laws are being applied equally. There are some signs that this may not be the case. When a President declares that 'no amendment is absolute,' he is in conflict with over 200 years of Supreme Court rulings that the Bill of Rights are absolute. When a former Secretary of State has been accused of passing intelligence about allied operations to a foreign adversary and there is no investigation, then treason is considered acceptable. When storing and transmitting classified information on a personal email server is not considered an unlawful act by a former Senator and Secretary of State but a felony by a member of the military, then justice is not equal. When evidence of the President's son has committed crimes of extortion, pay to play, child pornography, drug use and other crimes is provided to the FBI and no investigation is performed, then maybe justice is not equal. So, there is a chance that despite our laws and Constitution, anyone in Washington DC on Jan 6th, who is a Conservative, who supported President Trump and believes that current and former members of our government are operating a corrupt enterprise can be charged and convicted of crimes because there are no more checks and balances on our government.
Finally, when politics dictates how the UCMJ is applied, we will have lost the greatest military known to man and become nothing more than a banana republic. Just my 2-cents.
COL (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see) - Here is Wisconsin. Note that election supervisors not the State Legislature made changes to the time, manner and place for voting in 2020 which violates the Constitution. https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/11/08/tens-of-thousands-of-votes-in-wisconsin-called-into-question-n2579709
Election Changes in Wisconsin Call Into Question Tens of Thousands of Votes
In Wisconsin, a state Joe Biden carried by just over 20,000 votes, tens of thousands of votes are being called into question due to last-minute changes made by election supervisors.
SGT (Join to see)
COL (Join to see) you're confusing me. The Constitution only gives states the right to choose electors. Time place and manner refers to when the electors of each state verify the votes, then Jan 6th is when the election is verified as to who won. The traitors tried to STOP A FREE AND FAIR ELECTION. that's the facts.
SGT (Join to see)
COL (Join to see) Not true. States decide everything as they choose. The Constitution mentions nothing about state legislation.
lol The only retirees bound by UCMJ after retirement are Navy and Marine Corps who have not reached their 30 year mark. They are transferred to Fleet reserve and then upon their 30 year mark are not longer bound or subject to the UCMJ. Army and Air Force Retirees suffer no such obligation and once out are no longer bound or subject to UCMJ.
UCMJ only applies in such cases where the infractions occurred during their time in service.
And no military benefits are not "lost" on day 61. They cease but upon release most can be restored with no penalty
There is also the no small matter of actual conviction. Most of this will be much ado about noting and be plead down misdemeanors with the sentence being time served and a fine with probation. Meaning that their benefits will not even be so much touched if they are getting them.
UCMJ only applies in such cases where the infractions occurred during their time in service.
And no military benefits are not "lost" on day 61. They cease but upon release most can be restored with no penalty
There is also the no small matter of actual conviction. Most of this will be much ado about noting and be plead down misdemeanors with the sentence being time served and a fine with probation. Meaning that their benefits will not even be so much touched if they are getting them.
MSgt Gilbert Jones
Inactive enlisted AF retirees didn't have to report once they retired. I never receive any paperwork asking me anything once I left. As I said before, any time during those last eight years I had remaining on my commitment in the inactive reserve I could be called back on active duty As a First Sergeant during that time there was a shortage in my AFSC/MOS and therefore if a war broke out they could recall me. That was explained at my retirement briefing. They told me I needed to maintain one each of my uniforms until I reached my 30 year total commitment, which I did. On the day of my 30th year, I removed the stripes and buttons and thru the uniforms in the trash. No, I wasn't mad at the service, just didn't want my wife to bury me in my class A uniform.
COL (Join to see)
MSG Joseph Cristofaro - I believe you meant 'retired military servicemember.' A servicemember, Active, Reserve or National Guard can be tried by UCMJ as well as local/federal courts. A retired member has some protections against double jeopardy.
COL (Join to see)
MSG Joseph Cristofaro - We agree. My point was to clarify that members in an active status can still get caught in double jeopardy.
MSgt Gilbert Jones
SSG Brian G. - When I retired, I was not required to report in to anyone to let them know I was still breathing, just went about my business. Something did happen when my wife at that time passed and I notified the retirement center of her passing instead of removing her they sent her a certificate of my passing - talking about a mess. Due to that mistake on their part all of pension, SS, VA and civil service pension stopped. Took me three months to get them started again. Lucky I had enough income to live on.
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google