Working with Civilian Workers

Whewww...  That hurts, but you did say backstabbing.  Some of us really care, realize who we're here for and value working side by side as a team with Active duty.  For me, I'm still a Soldier.  I agree in a sense.  Some civilian positions were created due to in-consistency in a section/ departments performance due to turn-over.  Active duty PCS on a regular basis.  GWOT is going away, so you will see a decrease in positions and restoration of duties back to Active and Reserve Service.  I've already seen the MP's/ Security assume the gates and end contracts.  SSG, I only hope you recover from whatever took place with the backstabbing Civ.  I only hope that future encounters you find people out of uniform that emulate Corp/ Core values.

SSG Fleming, Based on your experience seems fair for you.  I agree with you about the certains functions that could be taking care by service members. But in other hand, I could see more "backstabbing" within the Army compared with civilians based on my experience. In my case, I am Army Reservist and Civilian worker for Coast Guard.  I serve both ways.  For me it is a pleasure to work in a joint environment.  I am very respectful with everybody SM or Civilian Co-Workers.  I am so sorry for the negative experience you had.  We are not all the same.

YES! Without question: yes! In my organization we are looked down upon as seasonal labor. You hear the "I'm a GS-10. I outrank you!" When you try and act in accordance with guidance passed by the CSM you hear, "Well I don't work for the CSM do I? And you work for me." Even though none of them have supervisor in their position description. They (not all) treat us with disrespect and contempt. For a long time, when a service member got in a disagreement with a GS, the service member is moved. When a GS got into a disagreement with service member, the service member was moved. I got in a disagreement with a GS, the GS lied and said I threatened his life. They started talking about UCMJ. Lucky for me I had witnesses. What happened to the GS? Not a damned thing. The Civilian deputy has been heard saying the Commandant works for him. Senior NCOs aren't seen as competent enough to lead training teams. WE ONLY TRAIN JR. TROOPS! 

<p>SPC Christie, you raise a solid point. I am the product of a military family, and remember the military of years gone by that was self supporting. I grew up outside Ft Jackson and Shaw AFB with family members at both installations. The gates were staffed by MPs/SPs. When visiting&nbsp;Naval&nbsp;Base Charleston or Naval Weapon Station Charleston, there were&nbsp;Marines&nbsp;at the gate. Dining halls were staffed by active duty personnel, and people maintaining the grounds/facilities/motor pool/admin support&nbsp;were all service members. New recruits arriving at FT Jackson didn't arrive on Greyhound. They arrived in big green US Army buses all picked at a central collecting point in downtown Columbia. The military supported itself.</p><p><br></p><p>While I don't understand how in my short life we have gone from being self supporting to what we have now, I would offer that it is not just the military, but the entire federal government. Two cases in point are the people who vetted Edward Snowden and the Washington Navy Yard shooter were not federal agents but contractors who are paid based on output not quality of their work. If the goal is do more work instead of better work, then it's easy to see why thing s slip through the cracks. Equally important is commitment. Contractors are dedicated to the contract $$$. Service members are committed to a higher purpose; to an organization; to each other.</p><p><br></p><p>I would opine that it's all about money being sent to benefactors of&nbsp;congress instead of being used to support the military/federal government internally. An objective review of how much money we spend with contractors would likely reveal that we spend much more money on them than it would cost to simply do it in-house ourselves.</p><p><br></p><p>Good catch. Thoughtful post.</p>

Get rid of them. Nothing personal but we are paid to do a job and we have a job code for every possible job that needs to be done. Civilians always want to complain about how "bloated" our defense budget is. Well look at the contractor sector. That will explain a lot on our budget and where all the money goes.

Contractors need to go. We train people in uniforms to do those jobs, and it is a shame that all that training we did is useless when we get out because the civilian world knows the people in uniform don't do "that" job...

The Army Material Command is a 4 star command, just like FORSCOM and TRADOC. The CIV SES Deputies are normally quite competent and have years in the organization. In AMC most of the 2 star commands had Civ Deputies. In fact, my unit with a 2 star G.O. leading an 11,000 person organization, only had around 300 green suiters. The Chaplin Assistant was probably the junior enlisted. I never saw anyone junior to him. AMC and Research and Development Command have a lot of civil service employees...and contractors. Civil Service takes the leadership positions. In R&D, are you going to find a lot of PhD scientist? How many PhDs in your unit? I have seen some crazy units. I retired military and later retired Civ Service. I was the G-2 of a 2 star command...as a GG-15. I was surprised when I got hired, because I thought I was going to be a deputy.

Remember, the rest of the gov has ALL Civil Service and no Generals, the Directors are all GS and SES. I have worked at DHS and DOE. I worked directly for the Under Secretary, who was also a Civ at DoEnergy. I found out my 21 years of active duty did not teach me much about our Gov. I was amazed how much I learned after the military.

I have been fortunate to work with both Civil Service employees and contract employees most of my military career.  I say fortunate because I have found both the Civil Service employees and contract employees to bring expertise and continuity to the workplace.  There are civilian personnel who are rude or difficult to work with, just as there are military personnel who have those same characteristics.

Good Damn Question. My main beef is the Shower Electrocutions. When I was in the Navy. For the most part the Seabees built our resources in forward operating theaters and they did a damn good job. Never heard or witnessed any quality problems with their constructions skills. Now we have Haliburton building this stuff and I hear about our troops dying from being electrocuted in the shower. INT WTH?

Based on these calculations, the cost of troop support would be $78.4 billion for the 20-year period. LOGCAP support is calculated to cost $41.4 billion for this period. Based upon the CBO calculations, the cost difference over a 20-year period would be $37 billion dollars, in 2005 dollars. The study found that organic support costs approximately 90 percent more than using contractors.