Xenophobia is never pretty...

CW5 Sam R. Baker Until 4 days ago, an illegal immigrant wasn't allowed to serve, so I am having serious doubts about the validity of your tale at the beginning of this thread. Also, anyone here illegally is by definition a criminal. You don't get to pick and choose which violations of the law makes one a criminal. So many logical fallacies.

Seal the border.
Remove illegal immigrants.
Increase legal immigration.

Agreed to all, I don't support or endorse the activity, just stating a fact as I know it and having worked in Houston Texas in the 80's, there sure wasn't enough Americans, government (local through federal) stopping and sealing the border from such activity. We are in the service. Having the opportunity to work in the civilian sector in Texas for 8 years prior to joining 27 years ago, there were no "legal" workers on the team I worked. I challenge the fact that anyone who was on top on my roof laying shingles is legal or documented also. A lot of fault lays with the businesses who intentionally HIRE workers without legal papers. I sense more prejudice in the comments then rationale for who is at fault with allowing and encouraging illegal workers to come into the country. Remember in field of dreams, "build it and they will come". We did and they accepted wholeheartedly.

MAJ (Join to see) , Sir in previous threads, that is my position, 100%, but the fact is the same, Limon was here and joined. He went to visit his family prior to our 2nd deployment in 2003 and was not allowed back in the US holding a DoD ID card, due to the fact he had no supporting documentation. He had to re-enter yet again illegally to deploy. I know not how, or support these crossings, but it seems rather easy with all the $$$$ we have spent on other countries that we could at least control the border in Canada and Mexico. Not sure why, but I can only assume it is American business driving this train.

A little different case then. He was in the US legally and joined the military. He didn't have his paperwork and had to cross that particular time illegally.

Col Joseph Lenertz, that's because he is an alethophobe.

MAJ Carl Ballinger , sir, you really think the other 95% appreciates us? I would think that number to be significantly lower or we would indeed have more allies and no need for all the politics. It is a whole other conversation, but we can surely list a myriad of countries in the 194 other that exist who clearly do not appreciate us and our reach.

The Muslim population was 1.6 Billion on 2003 and now it is reported at 2.2 Billion and to be upwards of 20 Billion by 2030. I happen to think that we will never witness 95% appreciation statistically.

Just my .02

SFC Michael Hasbun, as the only opinion I offered was that Martians are up to no good, then I must conclude that you are in fact one of those dirty Martian lovers who have fallen for the propaganda of "My Favorite Martian" and such.

From your statement, it is clear that you should change your second paragraph to "Hopefully I can add some clarity. The intended message is this; "we should not be judging people by legal immigration status. Individuals should be each assessed on their individual abilities, skills, and merit.".

While I agree with your sentiment that all should be afforded the same opportunities, regardless of where they were born, I do not agree with your unstated belief that all should be afforded the same CIRCUMSTANCES for that opportunity.

Much of the negative reaction to illegal immigration is the adverse impact it has on the costs associated with society - an estimated cost of over $330 billion annually and increasing (already adjusted for the high estimate of $23 billion they pay through taxes of one form or another). Specifically, local and state programs are the hardest hit because an little to no reimbursement by the federal government. Selfishly looking at just the impact to Virginia, the latest study showed that providing services for illegal aliens cost the state $1.5 billion (already offset by $200 million collected in revenue from them).

You stated that all should be based on abilities, skills and merit. I absolutely agree - this is the core principle of a meritocracy in which those with the ability rise to the top. Looking at the stats on illegal immigrants though, the overwhelming majority of them are unskilled and haven't completed a high school education. By your own words, these would be the ones that would be at the back of the line coming into the country, correct?

This country badly needs immigration reform. This country was built upon immigrants who came to this country and contributed to its growth which occurred during a time of no/limited social programs (welfare didn't come into being until the 1930s) and the survival and prosperity of the immigrant relied mainly upon their selves, family, or a close-knit community. The immigrants that came in during this period knew that they would be facing adversity and that it was their responsibility to improve their lot in life - not fall back on social programs/handouts. I'm not saying that all of the illegal immigrants want to be in this category, but the majority of them are in that status.

MAJ Ballinger. To me, nationality IS meaningless. Its the people that matter. Good people are good people, regardless of where they are. Same with bad people. I joined the military to serve the people. Family, friends, loved ones, associates, thats why I serve, not grid squares.

We do not have the resources to take everyone in, It takes time for families to adjust and adopt our American Culture. If we open the gates all hell will break loose. The Nation will fragment into ethnic groups that can not get along. It will strain our resources to the breaking point and push us closer to being a third world country. The country will shift farther to left and out constitution will be trampled on. I am not making this a racial or ethnic issue, it is an economic and social fact. Look at France and all of the rioting they had going on due lack of jobs for Immigrants both legal and illegal. Greece is also having issues with over immigration.

Yes, clearly referencing a literary character is more offensive than blatant racism... Though I admit a part of me is glad he did it. It clearly illustrates the subconscious thought process and attitudes behind this whole issue...

MAJ Carl Ballinger, well said.

I should point out, SSG Hasburn, you are speaking to a Major in a manner that is disrespectful. You are a member of the US Military speaking to an officer who is an actively commissioned officer in the US Military. You have a duty and a requirement to show respect to a man who is by all definitions superior to you in rank. You can disagree with him all you want, but in the end you are required to extend customs and courtesies.

WoW jumping on the enlited person because he said "Jesus Christ" at the end of a sentence to show how amazed he is at something. Saying that should not be offensive or "extremist" as one put it. I do not see anything in his coment as offensive to the "Officer". However, what the Officer said refering to illegal aliens was very offensive it is in line with using the "N" word. I do not see anyone jumping on his case for that. I guess it is easier to jump on someone who used the lords name in vain in order to show how WASPY you are .

I would have to kindly disagree w you.

SFC (Join to see), what is your disagreement about? Do you not think our President should focus on helping legal US citizens before that of illegal? That is the intent of Cpl Luke Sanchez's response. Or is it that you disagree with his assessment of the President which is a personal opinion. Clarification of your statement could help out significantly and can help to encourage a greater discussion as to your disagreement.

By the way I personally agree with all aspects of Cpl. Sanchez's post.

I was just disagreeing on his opinion, but everyone one is entitled to one. I think the Obama administration screwed up a lot, helped out a lot, and cleaned up junk from the former POTUS. I do not think jobs should be taken away from Americans for illegal immigrants however, they are willing and working for theAmerican Dream like anyone else. If they join the military, have no criminal record, under 16 when they arrived, and have caused no issues, then I am all for it. I do think we use 'being American' as an excuse to validate a reason not to help. Not here to debate though, just my opinion brother.

Well looks like my post was to a similar topic that was merged with SSG Hasbun's, who provided a slightly different viewpoint than the other post I answered by SSG Wiley. I still stand by my position though and I don't think it's anything to do with what is stated above by SSG Hasbun. Is it xenophobic or paranoid to expect our recruiting to focus on American citizens, or at least legal immigrants? If you want to point a finger at me, or others, in such a fashion then you are just stoking the fire by negatively labeling fellow servicemembers who disagree with you. My disagreement with your position is no indication that I somehow have some phobia. I’m not sure how many Lithuanian rocket scientists are in our country illegally, but I’d bet they are few and far between. I would submit that your base argument is flawed, but I would not stoop to calling you a name for having that opinion.